ANOTHER DVD format--EVD at DVinfo.net

Heath McKnight · December 8th, 2006, 09:20 PM

From imdb.com:

"Yet Another DVD Format Is Launched

Amplifying the babel of high-definition DVD recording languages, China on Wednesday took the wraps off 54 new video players playing discs recorded in the EVD (Enhanced Versatile Disc) format. In a report from Beijing, the Associated Press said that Chinese electronics makers plan to switch completely to EVD by 2008. They predicted that, because of the size of the Chinese market, the switchover will have no impact on manufacturers. They also indicated that they will begin exporting the EVD players abroad next year, although no U.S. studio has yet indicated that it intends to release product in the format. The A.P. report provided no technical specifications of the format, except to say that its promoters boast of "crisper" pictures, larger recording capacity and better anti-piracy features than standard DVD."

Is this like EDTV?

heath

Emre Safak · December 8th, 2006, 10:32 PM

http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=586736

Heath McKnight · December 8th, 2006, 10:37 PM

Thanks!

hwm

Mike Teutsch · December 8th, 2006, 10:43 PM

Heath,

Do you have your China article, the original one was for an article on the University of Central Florida?

Thanks-----Mike

P.S.: How's the cutting going?

Heath McKnight · December 8th, 2006, 11:29 PM

I grabbed it from imdb.com. Editing on 9:04 AM is coming along smoothly. Fixing audio, doing re-loops, shooting establishing shots and selecting music now. F/X work will take a little longer.

heath

Wayne Morellini · December 9th, 2006, 10:10 AM

I saw a few articles, what codec are they now using? They were going to use VP7, but I understand that got canned (Theodora is based on VP3).

The $84 starting price is interesting for us. It would be a cheap way for people to play HD productions (once they buy a HD set).

Jeff Kilgroe · December 10th, 2006, 10:10 AM

Although HD isn't the primary function or reason behind EVD. Chinese manufacturers are selling cheap DVD players with little profit margin and can't compete with foreign manufacturers (wow, to think that "Made in China" means you're paying too much). Chinese electronics manufacturers have united to create their own standard for disc media to avoid the per-player costs of DVD standards licensing. ...Nintendo did this with the Wii console as it uses DVD media, but does not offer movie playback or use one of the licensed disc formats -- saves them roughly $6 and change for each console or player sold. For DVD players that are selling for $20 to $30 in retail channels, manufacturers are starting to pay more in DVD license fees than they are receiving in profit.

EVD itself still uses standard DVD media, but is based on a UDF file system with no license fees. The video objects/menus/etc.. are also free of license fees... Or at least to Chinese manufacturers involved in EVD's design. Foreign companies who want to also produce EVD devices will have to pay license fees to the EVD licensing group rather than the DVD Consortium.

By leveraging newer codec technology with EVD (H.264, VC1, some Theora VPn types, etc..), more video can be squeezed onto a disc. A dual-ayer disc can fit a decent quality HD transfer of a feature film by using VC1 or some of the Theora codecs. However, don't expect it to rival HD-DVD or BluRay in quality, the capacity and bit-rate just aren't there. And like I said, this wasn't their primary focus at this time anyway. But rather a new standard which they don't have to license. And with the newer codecs, a lot can be done to improve on quality and length of playback time vs. current MPEG2 based DVDs.

Don Blish · December 11th, 2006, 11:16 AM

It sounds like the "enhanced codecs" might allow 20 - 50% smaller files at high quality levels, but that won't make up for EVD's limited capacity. They are banking on technology that still uses red lasers and lots and lots of 5GB layers. That does not sound like a solid foundation of storing 20 to 30 GB files for feature length titles.

Jeff Kilgroe · December 11th, 2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Blish

It sounds like the "enhanced codecs" might allow 20 - 50% smaller files at high quality levels, but that won't make up for EVD's limited capacity. They are banking on technology that still uses red lasers and lots and lots of 5GB layers. That does not sound like a solid foundation of storing 20 to 30 GB files for feature length titles.

Exactly... Just like I mentioned above in my previous post, EVD is just based on DVD media. Only using different data formats to avoid current licensing restrictions and create their own.

Each layer is actually 4.7GB (about 4.5GB real world storage) and by "lots" of layers, they mean up to 4. Current DVD video spec allows for 2 layers per disc side. It is the intention of the EVD manufacturers to allow all 4 layers to be read from the same side. We'll see if that actually happens. Some of the speculation floating about regarding more than 4 layers are just unfounded rumors. That many layers really starts to become pointless - even just plain silly. Disc manufacturing costs would balloon up as would the cost of optics with far more focus and movement capabilities and the higher power laser diodes needed to utilize all those layers. At any rate, a quad-layer EVD still has a smaller capacity than a single-layer HD-DVD disc. So while this looks like a good route to travel for Chinese electronics makers and supportive studios, it makes little sense for those of us in the the Americas or most of Europe. ...And now with HD-DVD and BluRay fighting for consumer votes, a third format isn't going to help. Besides, EVD isn't really intended for HD delivery, or at least not on the level of HD-DVD or BD. Even with the latest codecs, an EVD isn't going to deliver the same calibre of video and sound... Still not enough capacity and the bitrate isn't there unless they want to set EVD spin rates to 4 or 8 X. And that makes no sense for portable players requiring decent battery life.

Paulo Teixeira · December 11th, 2006, 09:56 PM

http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=...t_id=780005878

Emre Safak · December 12th, 2006, 09:40 AM

I can't believe it only runs on MPEG-2! What is the audio codec, ATRAC??

Wayne Morellini · December 12th, 2006, 11:54 PM

As I was going to say before, Mpeg2? Even Sony has had to abandon Mpeg2 on Blu-ray in favour of better codecs. What data rate are they using for 1080 or 720?

Heath McKnight · December 13th, 2006, 12:06 AM

H.264, right? Blu-Ray and I even think HD DVD use this.

heath

Wayne Morellini · December 13th, 2006, 07:47 AM

I have not kept up with this, but as I understand. movies encoded in the Windows Media player derived codec (can't remember the standard name) were beating out Mpeg2 disks. I don't know where ever h264 is supported across the board or not.

What is the specs of the h264 on blu-ray/HDDVD anyway, I thought I heard it was similar to AVCHD?

December 8th, 2006, 09:20 PM	#1
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	ANOTHER DVD format--EVD From imdb.com: "Yet Another DVD Format Is Launched Amplifying the babel of high-definition DVD recording languages, China on Wednesday took the wraps off 54 new video players playing discs recorded in the EVD (Enhanced Versatile Disc) format. In a report from Beijing, the Associated Press said that Chinese electronics makers plan to switch completely to EVD by 2008. They predicted that, because of the size of the Chinese market, the switchover will have no impact on manufacturers. They also indicated that they will begin exporting the EVD players abroad next year, although no U.S. studio has yet indicated that it intends to release product in the format. The A.P. report provided no technical specifications of the format, except to say that its promoters boast of "crisper" pictures, larger recording capacity and better anti-piracy features than standard DVD." Is this like EDTV? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 8th, 2006, 10:37 PM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Thanks! hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 8th, 2006, 10:43 PM	#4
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Heath, Do you have your China article, the original one was for an article on the University of Central Florida? Thanks-----Mike P.S.: How's the cutting going? __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

December 8th, 2006, 11:29 PM	#5
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I grabbed it from imdb.com. Editing on 9:04 AM is coming along smoothly. Fixing audio, doing re-loops, shooting establishing shots and selecting music now. F/X work will take a little longer. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 10th, 2006, 10:10 AM	#7
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	Although HD isn't the primary function or reason behind EVD. Chinese manufacturers are selling cheap DVD players with little profit margin and can't compete with foreign manufacturers (wow, to think that "Made in China" means you're paying too much). Chinese electronics manufacturers have united to create their own standard for disc media to avoid the per-player costs of DVD standards licensing. ...Nintendo did this with the Wii console as it uses DVD media, but does not offer movie playback or use one of the licensed disc formats -- saves them roughly $6 and change for each console or player sold. For DVD players that are selling for $20 to $30 in retail channels, manufacturers are starting to pay more in DVD license fees than they are receiving in profit. EVD itself still uses standard DVD media, but is based on a UDF file system with no license fees. The video objects/menus/etc.. are also free of license fees... Or at least to Chinese manufacturers involved in EVD's design. Foreign companies who want to also produce EVD devices will have to pay license fees to the EVD licensing group rather than the DVD Consortium. By leveraging newer codec technology with EVD (H.264, VC1, some Theora VPn types, etc..), more video can be squeezed onto a disc. A dual-ayer disc can fit a decent quality HD transfer of a feature film by using VC1 or some of the Theora codecs. However, don't expect it to rival HD-DVD or BluRay in quality, the capacity and bit-rate just aren't there. And like I said, this wasn't their primary focus at this time anyway. But rather a new standard which they don't have to license. And with the newer codecs, a lot can be done to improve on quality and length of playback time vs. current MPEG2 based DVDs. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

December 8th, 2006, 10:32 PM	#2
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=586736

December 9th, 2006, 10:10 AM	#6
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I saw a few articles, what codec are they now using? They were going to use VP7, but I understand that got canned (Theodora is based on VP3). The $84 starting price is interesting for us. It would be a cheap way for people to play HD productions (once they buy a HD set).

December 11th, 2006, 11:16 AM	#8
Don Blish Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Portland OR Posts: 227	EVD = lots of 5GB layers! It sounds like the "enhanced codecs" might allow 20 - 50% smaller files at high quality levels, but that won't make up for EVD's limited capacity. They are banking on technology that still uses red lasers and lots and lots of 5GB layers. That does not sound like a solid foundation of storing 20 to 30 GB files for feature length titles.

December 11th, 2006, 09:56 PM	#10
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	EVD: Where Art Thee? http://www.edn.com/index.asp?layout=...t_id=780005878 __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

December 12th, 2006, 09:40 AM	#11
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	I can't believe it only runs on MPEG-2! What is the audio codec, ATRAC??

December 12th, 2006, 11:54 PM	#12
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	As I was going to say before, Mpeg2? Even Sony has had to abandon Mpeg2 on Blu-ray in favour of better codecs. What data rate are they using for 1080 or 720?

December 13th, 2006, 12:06 AM	#13
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	H.264, right? Blu-Ray and I even think HD DVD use this. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 13th, 2006, 07:47 AM	#14
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	I have not kept up with this, but as I understand. movies encoded in the Windows Media player derived codec (can't remember the standard name) were beating out Mpeg2 disks. I don't know where ever h264 is supported across the board or not. What is the specs of the h264 on blu-ray/HDDVD anyway, I thought I heard it was similar to AVCHD?