Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q3Q4)

Marcia Janine Galles · October 20th, 2004, 10:31 AM

Does anyone have a download site to suggest or instructions for how to manually generate a clean 1 mKz tone for a custom leader layoff? Avid's, FCP, and everything else I've used come with a pre-made clip you can just pop in. Seems screwy that Vegas has multiple bars and no sound fx to go with them. But maybe I'm missing something...

Marcia

Greg Boston · October 20th, 2004, 10:41 AM

Hi Marcia,

I emailed you a 1 khz 30 second sinewave.

regards,

=gb=

Edward Troxel · October 20th, 2004, 10:57 AM

Vegas generates the tone upon printing to tape but does not include one. What many people have done is do a print to tape, then recapture the tape in order to get the tone.

Sound Forge will let you create whatever tones you need.

Hopefully the one Greg sent you will work for your needs.

John Cloy · October 20th, 2004, 11:00 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : Network rendering will also work on a SINGLE machine! -->>>

You mean I start a network render process on my primary machine and let it pick off things to render? Gosh - great idea! I'll root around in the manual tonight to figure out how...

Joe Carney · October 20th, 2004, 01:03 PM

btw folks, this is why it's a good idea to get a dual monitor setup.

Marcia Janine Galles · October 20th, 2004, 01:20 PM

Got it Greg. Awesome. Thanks!

Marcia

P.S.

You wouldn't happen to have ever built bars 'n tone, leader (countdown) etc. for a 24p transfer to film and sound editorial by any chance? It's been too many years since I worked as an assistant and had to do this stuff myself. (sigh) And then it was "simple" telecine issues, going back to film. I'm not 100% sure with what I'm doing at the moment. I've got the timeline in Vegas set to SMPTE film sync IVTC (23.976 fps video) as the whole project was shot 24pA. But I'm wondering if I should have the timeline set to seconds or audio 30 fps instead. I should probably post in the audio section, but if anybody reading this has any feedback, feel free to comment! Just when I thought I had it down, and checked with the timeline out all the way, things were off. I've been messing around with it (quantize to frames on and off to try and nail the exact point), and I find myself going, "so if it's 23.976, should total duration on the timeline be reading as :23 or 1:00 for the 1 second number/countdown clips?" And of course, when I mess around with one thing, another gets thrown off and doesn't match up, or at least, doesn't seem to match up by the way I'm trying to fugure it (so FFOP comes up/begins at exactly 01:00:08:00, with the required 8 seconds between it and the end of the Picture Start "frame"). Think I need an early lunch break. My head hurts. ;-)

Edward Troxel · October 20th, 2004, 01:29 PM

Naa... just play it back on your big screen TV while sitting in your easy chair trying things out on your laptop! :-) (does that make them all deductible???)

Dan Melius · October 20th, 2004, 05:31 PM

I have a question on the standard brightness and contrast to be used for distributing world wide dvd's or at least in the U.S. I am not sure where to post this but since I used Vegas to do everything except the actual encoding (used TMPG for that) I thought this might be the right area.

I have some sample comparison still frame captures below that were taken before and after making changes with Vegas. I made these while looking at a TV screen going into my VX2100 and then on into my computer using the external monitor view. The TV was calibrated using the DVD test provided on many DVD's THX www.thx.com

I made the background more blue by giving the lows more blue and added more warm skin tones by turning up the red on mids and highs. I also tried to reduce some of the brightness from the harsh stage lights by trying to turn down the brightness on the faces a little while keeping the background the same darkness by messing with the brightness and contrast.

My main concern is that the footage looks quite dark on a tv or even a monitor's default settings. For instance I now have my monitor set up on a scale from 0-100 set up from the default of 50 to 63 for brightness and 90 for contrast after taking the THX test and the footage looks good on both my TV and monitor as I did the THX test for both my monitor and TV set. What do you think of these still captures as far as brightness and contrast for distribution on DVDs? Will it be a problem with those that don't like to adjust their settings of their TV's from the default factory settings?

http://webpages.charter.net/dan76/ca...mparison_1.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/dan76/ca...mparison_2.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/dan76/ca...mparison_3.jpg

Regards,
Daniel Melius

Andy Shrimpton · October 20th, 2004, 08:29 PM

Couldn't you just open 5 instances in Vegas and have each one render a different 'reel' over night?

Andy

John Cloy · October 20th, 2004, 09:14 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Andy Shrimpton : Couldn't you just open 5 instances in Vegas and have each one render a different 'reel' over night?

That's actually what I do right now, but I've had problems with machine lockups when I open more than 3 instances of Vegas (and it always happens in the middle of the night well into the render).

I wanted to be able to queue up the renders since it has never crashed when I've had three instances or fewer rendering at one time.

I'm also starting to experment with rendering the audio and video separately, which will double the number of renders I need to complete.

Simon Wyndham · October 21st, 2004, 04:10 AM

This may sound like a dumb question (or it could be a dumb ommision from Vegas), but how in the hell can I insert a new line of text in a credits roll? I'm not talking about at the end, but I want to insert a new line of text halfway through the credits.

Peter Jefferson · October 21st, 2004, 05:49 AM

teh FX1 ISNT a 24p camera..
i dont think the ZX1 (pro model) will be either considering HD is an interlaced format.

Im waiting on my FX1 to come in so i can have a play, however you CAN change yoru filed options within your project (if ur using Vegas)

you wont lose all that much considering youre going to have to downsize it back to SD for delivery anyway

Peter Jefferson · October 21st, 2004, 05:50 AM

highighlt any area in the text write field and hit the "insert" key

Simon Wyndham · October 21st, 2004, 06:36 AM

Phew, thanks Peter! :-)

Brian Mitchell Warshawsky · October 21st, 2004, 08:16 AM

Peter,

Thanks, but allow me to restate the question this way:

It is precisely because the FX1 is NOT 24p, that this question is asked.

As the FX1 is not 24P, but is interlaced, this may actually be to our advantage - is it not possible to run Edward's excellent de-interlace/24fps script on the 1080i footage and still arrive at something pretty close to 720P?

As Spot stated in his article on “film-like appearance” subject, "These small tips should help you to create a look that approaches the film-look fairly easily". Now if we apply these techniques to HD, what then?

I use the DVX100 in 24p mode, but for certain effects related purposes (slo-mo, high speed effects) I will shoot in 60i, adjust the speed in Vegas to suit the purpose, render as an uncompressed .avi, bring it back into Vegas and run Edward's script. I have been very pleased with the resulting footage and intrigued by the many creative possibilities opened up by this technique. I now understand the value of interlaced footage, as described by Spot. (I come from a film background, and video is still a foreign language to me).

When JVC first came out with their HDV cams there was furious online debate about the problems inherent in 30p (from the filmmaking perspective). People were grasping at straws trying to find a way to convert 30p to 24fps, even looking at running feature length projects through Re:Vision’s Twixter and other processes.

Now here we have a 1080i stream which potentially may provide a mind-blowing Super 16-like output, if it can somehow be harnessed. Imagine converting this to 24fps, down-rezzing it back to standard def, and dropping it on a DVD. You are now playing with power, and ushering in the new era of the digital democracy.

Potential formula:

Take the new FX1, add Vegas 5 or even Vegas 6 which may presumably have additional features better suited to the HD mpeg format, convert to 24fps, and where does this put the budget conscious filmmaker who sees a potential poor man’s Cinealta or Varicam within their grasp?

So the question needs to be asked. Is this a pipe dream? Maybe not.

Vegas could be the difference.

Brian

October 20th, 2004, 10:31 AM	#1186
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Manually creating a 1 kHz tone Does anyone have a download site to suggest or instructions for how to manually generate a clean 1 mKz tone for a custom leader layoff? Avid's, FCP, and everything else I've used come with a pre-made clip you can just pop in. Seems screwy that Vegas has multiple bars and no sound fx to go with them. But maybe I'm missing something... Marcia

October 20th, 2004, 10:57 AM	#1188
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Vegas generates the tone upon printing to tape but does not include one. What many people have done is do a print to tape, then recapture the tape in order to get the tone. Sound Forge will let you create whatever tones you need. Hopefully the one Greg sent you will work for your needs. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

October 20th, 2004, 11:00 AM	#1189
John Cloy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 50	<<<-- Originally posted by Edward Troxel : Network rendering will also work on a SINGLE machine! -->>> You mean I start a network render process on my primary machine and let it pick off things to render? Gosh - great idea! I'll root around in the manual tonight to figure out how... __________________ John You mean I can get paid to do this?

October 20th, 2004, 01:29 PM	#1192
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Naa... just play it back on your big screen TV while sitting in your easy chair trying things out on your laptop! :-) (does that make them all deductible???) __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

October 20th, 2004, 05:31 PM	#1193
Dan Melius Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Johnstown PA Posts: 44	question on brightness and contrast settings for DVD's I have a question on the standard brightness and contrast to be used for distributing world wide dvd's or at least in the U.S. I am not sure where to post this but since I used Vegas to do everything except the actual encoding (used TMPG for that) I thought this might be the right area. I have some sample comparison still frame captures below that were taken before and after making changes with Vegas. I made these while looking at a TV screen going into my VX2100 and then on into my computer using the external monitor view. The TV was calibrated using the DVD test provided on many DVD's THX www.thx.com I made the background more blue by giving the lows more blue and added more warm skin tones by turning up the red on mids and highs. I also tried to reduce some of the brightness from the harsh stage lights by trying to turn down the brightness on the faces a little while keeping the background the same darkness by messing with the brightness and contrast. My main concern is that the footage looks quite dark on a tv or even a monitor's default settings. For instance I now have my monitor set up on a scale from 0-100 set up from the default of 50 to 63 for brightness and 90 for contrast after taking the THX test and the footage looks good on both my TV and monitor as I did the THX test for both my monitor and TV set. What do you think of these still captures as far as brightness and contrast for distribution on DVDs? Will it be a problem with those that don't like to adjust their settings of their TV's from the default factory settings? http://webpages.charter.net/dan76/ca...mparison_1.jpg http://webpages.charter.net/dan76/ca...mparison_2.jpg http://webpages.charter.net/dan76/ca...mparison_3.jpg Regards, Daniel Melius

October 20th, 2004, 10:41 AM	#1187
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Hi Marcia, I emailed you a 1 khz 30 second sinewave. regards, =gb=

October 20th, 2004, 01:03 PM	#1190
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	btw folks, this is why it's a good idea to get a dual monitor setup.

October 20th, 2004, 01:20 PM	#1191
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Got it Greg. Awesome. Thanks! Marcia P.S. You wouldn't happen to have ever built bars 'n tone, leader (countdown) etc. for a 24p transfer to film and sound editorial by any chance? It's been too many years since I worked as an assistant and had to do this stuff myself. (sigh) And then it was "simple" telecine issues, going back to film. I'm not 100% sure with what I'm doing at the moment. I've got the timeline in Vegas set to SMPTE film sync IVTC (23.976 fps video) as the whole project was shot 24pA. But I'm wondering if I should have the timeline set to seconds or audio 30 fps instead. I should probably post in the audio section, but if anybody reading this has any feedback, feel free to comment! Just when I thought I had it down, and checked with the timeline out all the way, things were off. I've been messing around with it (quantize to frames on and off to try and nail the exact point), and I find myself going, "so if it's 23.976, should total duration on the timeline be reading as :23 or 1:00 for the 1 second number/countdown clips?" And of course, when I mess around with one thing, another gets thrown off and doesn't match up, or at least, doesn't seem to match up by the way I'm trying to fugure it (so FFOP comes up/begins at exactly 01:00:08:00, with the required 8 seconds between it and the end of the Picture Start "frame"). Think I need an early lunch break. My head hurts. ;-)

October 20th, 2004, 08:29 PM	#1194
Andy Shrimpton Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Robina Queensland Australia Posts: 73	Couldn't you just open 5 instances in Vegas and have each one render a different 'reel' over night? Andy __________________ 'This one goes to eleven' Nigel Tufnell

October 20th, 2004, 09:14 PM	#1195
John Cloy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Escondido, CA Posts: 50	<<<-- Originally posted by Andy Shrimpton : Couldn't you just open 5 instances in Vegas and have each one render a different 'reel' over night? That's actually what I do right now, but I've had problems with machine lockups when I open more than 3 instances of Vegas (and it always happens in the middle of the night well into the render). I wanted to be able to queue up the renders since it has never crashed when I've had three instances or fewer rendering at one time. I'm also starting to experment with rendering the audio and video separately, which will double the number of renders I need to complete. __________________ John You mean I can get paid to do this?

October 21st, 2004, 04:10 AM	#1196
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Text scrolling troubles This may sound like a dumb question (or it could be a dumb ommision from Vegas), but how in the hell can I insert a new line of text in a credits roll? I'm not talking about at the end, but I want to insert a new line of text halfway through the credits.

October 21st, 2004, 05:49 AM	#1197
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	teh FX1 ISNT a 24p camera.. i dont think the ZX1 (pro model) will be either considering HD is an interlaced format. Im waiting on my FX1 to come in so i can have a play, however you CAN change yoru filed options within your project (if ur using Vegas) you wont lose all that much considering youre going to have to downsize it back to SD for delivery anyway

October 21st, 2004, 05:50 AM	#1198
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	highighlt any area in the text write field and hit the "insert" key

October 21st, 2004, 06:36 AM	#1199
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Phew, thanks Peter! :-)

October 21st, 2004, 08:16 AM	#1200
Brian Mitchell Warshawsky Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 216	Peter, Thanks, but allow me to restate the question this way: It is precisely because the FX1 is NOT 24p, that this question is asked. As the FX1 is not 24P, but is interlaced, this may actually be to our advantage - is it not possible to run Edward's excellent de-interlace/24fps script on the 1080i footage and still arrive at something pretty close to 720P? As Spot stated in his article on “film-like appearance” subject, "These small tips should help you to create a look that approaches the film-look fairly easily". Now if we apply these techniques to HD, what then? I use the DVX100 in 24p mode, but for certain effects related purposes (slo-mo, high speed effects) I will shoot in 60i, adjust the speed in Vegas to suit the purpose, render as an uncompressed .avi, bring it back into Vegas and run Edward's script. I have been very pleased with the resulting footage and intrigued by the many creative possibilities opened up by this technique. I now understand the value of interlaced footage, as described by Spot. (I come from a film background, and video is still a foreign language to me). When JVC first came out with their HDV cams there was furious online debate about the problems inherent in 30p (from the filmmaking perspective). People were grasping at straws trying to find a way to convert 30p to 24fps, even looking at running feature length projects through Re:Vision’s Twixter and other processes. Now here we have a 1080i stream which potentially may provide a mind-blowing Super 16-like output, if it can somehow be harnessed. Imagine converting this to 24fps, down-rezzing it back to standard def, and dropping it on a DVD. You are now playing with power, and ushering in the new era of the digital democracy. Potential formula: Take the new FX1, add Vegas 5 or even Vegas 6 which may presumably have additional features better suited to the HD mpeg format, convert to 24fps, and where does this put the budget conscious filmmaker who sees a potential poor man’s Cinealta or Varicam within their grasp? So the question needs to be asked. Is this a pipe dream? Maybe not. Vegas could be the difference. Brian