Vegas Video discussions from 2004 (Q3Q4)

Kevin James · December 6th, 2004, 10:10 PM

Wow......am i reading that site right, a $35 plugin does 24p conversions? This combined with my other film look plugin (for which I have some favorite presets) may offer me the functionality of at $1500 24p/film look plugins?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · December 6th, 2004, 10:17 PM

The tool uses existing tools in Vegas, setting up the project for you and rendering the media correctly for you. Vegas is wonderful at deinterlacing, so Celluloid and Ultimate S both take advantage of this. In fact, in this same community, there are several comparisons to Magic Bullet and a couple other deinterlacing tools, most folks liked Vegas best. Even some of the FCP guys.
Check it out, there is a 14 day trial on the site. (The trial only comes with 6 filmlooks, the remaining 15 come when you buy the application.

Steve Crisdale · December 7th, 2004, 12:19 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : groovy thanks for that mate!!!

Actually its only foir live demos on some Vegas pods we've built. Were running the new HDV plugin for capture and project settings.

Its still in its early stages... i think to early right now as its quite system draining.. heres hoping they fix the cpu/ram resource issue in V6... at teh moment vegas isnt using as much of teh system grunt as it could..

thanks again for the loan, i;ll let u know how it goes! -->>>

So are you saying that Sony will be releasing a HDV plugin to enable capture and editing HDV from it's FX1?

If it is so, do you know if it supports frame accurate edits of the FX1's interlaced footage? Now that would be something!!

The Digital Media Festival you mention..... Is it on soon? At Sydney's Darling Harbour? If it is and I'm not working - or otherwise entangled - I might try to get down there with my FX1e and HD10u....

Lars Siden · December 7th, 2004, 03:29 AM

Hi DSE,

Just a quick question. You mention that "progressive scan media" will be interlaced when viewing it on TV? Is it so? I thought that if I had a progressive-scan capable DVD player I'd play it back in progressive mode?

I know that some cheaper dvd players can't handle progressive mode but the more capable ones should? Or have I missed something?

// Lazze \\

Miguel Lopez · December 7th, 2004, 06:14 AM

Arg. The effect is so subtle that is hardly seen. Any other advice?
thanks!

Peter Jefferson · December 7th, 2004, 06:58 AM

So are you saying that Sony will be releasing a HDV plugin to enable capture and editing HDV from it's FX1?

--YUP ive got it installed and it works quite well at the moment, but its still in its Beta2 stage.. it also installs the CineForm HDV codec and afew other HDV project presets such as 50i. As the ZU1 is 50i/60i, Frame mode (not progressive) switchable these presets are set specifically for the new Sony HDV cams. Most likely V6 will carry these plugin features in version 6 as standard as were lookin at an update within the first quarter of next year, when teh ZU1 is released--

If it is so, do you know if it supports frame accurate edits of the FX1's interlaced footage? Now that would be something!!

--Vegas already does this with its "virtual" frames in your timeline. I frame and B frame problems are non existant. U dont have to worry bout GOP drop off/freezeframes as the software recognises that the frames are being replaced and resamples ll mpg2 frames anyway. On top of that, if yo supersample ur HDV footage, youll get almost zero aliasing. The FX1 is a brilliant camera and i know many companies ditching their broadcast gear to build a studio full of these cams. Theyre that good.

The Digital Media Festival you mention..... Is it on soon?

---Mon tue wed 6 7 and 8 December in exhibition hall 6 darling harbour. Im at the NewMagic stand 9the guys who disribute Vegas and Lightwave here in Oz. ---

At Sydney's Darling Harbour? If it is and I'm not working - or otherwise entangled - I might try to get down there with my FX1e and HD10u....

--groovy, come down and check out teh Pro HDV model of the FX1, it has built in 4:3 framing, XLR's, and afew other features within the menu system. Its also sexy black ;)

im starting to wonder why anyone would want to purchase an XL2 after seeing these cameras in action.....

Peter Jefferson · December 7th, 2004, 07:01 AM

Convert the files using the Demo version of Cineform's codec, or convert the media to Huffyuv.
If you use Cineform, getting 25p or 50i playback is crazy simple. Native m2t streams will NEVER playback at full rate on today's computers, MPEG is just simply cruel.

Thanks for that DSE, what are u using for the conversion to Huffyyuv??

Were running the mpg2's which are already captured as Cineform codec files straight from the new plugin. If theres a way to get away with converting these to another format for decent editing without killing frames, id love to try it :)

Douglas Spotted Eagle · December 7th, 2004, 07:56 AM

If youconnect a progressive scan DVD player, and have a progressive scan DVD, and connected to an LCD monitor or projector, you have PS all the way through. Change any component, and it's no longer progressive scan.
If you connect all that to a plasma or television monitor that isn't progressive scan, then it's converted to interlaced at the display.

Ron Guilmette · December 7th, 2004, 08:19 AM

Is there a way to change the default size of 60 every time I open the text window?
It's driving me nuts. Now where did I put that prozac...........

Edward Troxel · December 7th, 2004, 09:03 AM

On mine, default is 72! Here's what you can do. Change the setting the way you want and then save as a PRESET. Now when adding text, add YOUR preset instead of the "default" preset.

Glenn Chan · December 7th, 2004, 11:53 AM

Before the magic bullet filter, you could try this:

Apply the color curves plug-in. Making it concave down (a curve that points to the top left) increases brightness, making it concave up decreases brightness.

Making the curve look like a "S" increases contrast. Making it look like a s turned sideways decreases contrast.

Bring up the histogram. You want it to look kinda even, so there's a good balance of shadows, midtones, and highlights. Adjust contrast and brightness with curves until you get that.

What you're doing here is compensating for any under/overexposure. If the picture was under/overexposed then you will either have very little black diffusion going on or a lot of diffusion going on. *Side note: You can always make your histogram look very flat, although that may not always be desireable. For dark scenes, you may want just a few highlights in the picture (the histogram will on average slope to the right). For bright scenes that could be the opposite.

2- Try the black diffusion 5.0 preset. Increase grade all the way.

3- Bring up the checkerboard from Vegas' video generators and apply the black diffusion 5.0 preset to that.

Bob Costa · December 7th, 2004, 11:23 PM

Does anyone here keep a database of tapes, and possibly even scenes on each tape? I have been looking for software to do it, and have not found anything interesting for the PC. I did see a couple of Mac things. I use Vegas, so ideally it would tie into the Vegas media pool stuff and capture. But even a separate program would be of use, especially for tape library management.

So how about it? Any decent software to buy, or should I just build my own database?

Viktor Carlquist · December 8th, 2004, 02:13 AM

Ive found these two:

Scenalyzer
http://www.scenalyzer.com/

CatDV
http://www.squarebox.co.uk/catdv/

Scenalyzer is easy to use, and CATDV is a bit more advanced. To use the Capture feature in CATDV, you need to buy a third party plugin, and I haven´t found any good ones yet.

There are lots of threads on this subject. Just search for
DV logging
logging tapes
log tapes
etc.

Ron Guilmette · December 8th, 2004, 06:47 AM

Yep seventy two also. I guess the preset is the way to go.
Thanks again.

Ron.G

Bob Costa · December 8th, 2004, 09:20 AM

Thanks Viktor.

I thought there WOULD be alot of threads, but could only find a couple. I probably didn't use the right keywords, but I tried a bunch of different ones.

I had looked at Scenalyzer, but it seemed to be only a capture tool. CatDV looks interesting tho, and I will examine it in more detail. Any other suggestions from the group here?

December 6th, 2004, 10:17 PM	#1637
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The tool uses existing tools in Vegas, setting up the project for you and rendering the media correctly for you. Vegas is wonderful at deinterlacing, so Celluloid and Ultimate S both take advantage of this. In fact, in this same community, there are several comparisons to Magic Bullet and a couple other deinterlacing tools, most folks liked Vegas best. Even some of the FCP guys. Check it out, there is a 14 day trial on the site. (The trial only comes with 6 filmlooks, the remaining 15 come when you buy the application. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

December 7th, 2004, 07:56 AM	#1643
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	If youconnect a progressive scan DVD player, and have a progressive scan DVD, and connected to an LCD monitor or projector, you have PS all the way through. Change any component, and it's no longer progressive scan. If you connect all that to a plasma or television monitor that isn't progressive scan, then it's converted to interlaced at the display. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

December 7th, 2004, 08:19 AM	#1644
Ron Guilmette Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hope Vally RI Posts: 30	Change default font size Is there a way to change the default size of 60 every time I open the text window? It's driving me nuts. Now where did I put that prozac...........

December 7th, 2004, 09:03 AM	#1645
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	On mine, default is 72! Here's what you can do. Change the setting the way you want and then save as a PRESET. Now when adding text, add YOUR preset instead of the "default" preset. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

December 7th, 2004, 11:23 PM	#1647
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Tape and Clip Logging Does anyone here keep a database of tapes, and possibly even scenes on each tape? I have been looking for software to do it, and have not found anything interesting for the PC. I did see a couple of Mac things. I use Vegas, so ideally it would tie into the Vegas media pool stuff and capture. But even a separate program would be of use, especially for tape library management. So how about it? Any decent software to buy, or should I just build my own database?

December 6th, 2004, 10:10 PM	#1636
Kevin James Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 204	Wow......am i reading that site right, a $35 plugin does 24p conversions? This combined with my other film look plugin (for which I have some favorite presets) may offer me the functionality of at $1500 24p/film look plugins?

December 7th, 2004, 12:19 AM	#1638
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : groovy thanks for that mate!!! Actually its only foir live demos on some Vegas pods we've built. Were running the new HDV plugin for capture and project settings. Its still in its early stages... i think to early right now as its quite system draining.. heres hoping they fix the cpu/ram resource issue in V6... at teh moment vegas isnt using as much of teh system grunt as it could.. thanks again for the loan, i;ll let u know how it goes! -->>> So are you saying that Sony will be releasing a HDV plugin to enable capture and editing HDV from it's FX1? If it is so, do you know if it supports frame accurate edits of the FX1's interlaced footage? Now that would be something!! The Digital Media Festival you mention..... Is it on soon? At Sydney's Darling Harbour? If it is and I'm not working - or otherwise entangled - I might try to get down there with my FX1e and HD10u....

December 7th, 2004, 03:29 AM	#1639
Lars Siden Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden, Stockholm Posts: 469	Hi DSE, Just a quick question. You mention that "progressive scan media" will be interlaced when viewing it on TV? Is it so? I thought that if I had a progressive-scan capable DVD player I'd play it back in progressive mode? I know that some cheaper dvd players can't handle progressive mode but the more capable ones should? Or have I missed something? // Lazze \\

December 7th, 2004, 06:14 AM	#1640
Miguel Lopez Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 187	Arg. The effect is so subtle that is hardly seen. Any other advice? thanks!

December 7th, 2004, 06:58 AM	#1641
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	So are you saying that Sony will be releasing a HDV plugin to enable capture and editing HDV from it's FX1? --YUP ive got it installed and it works quite well at the moment, but its still in its Beta2 stage.. it also installs the CineForm HDV codec and afew other HDV project presets such as 50i. As the ZU1 is 50i/60i, Frame mode (not progressive) switchable these presets are set specifically for the new Sony HDV cams. Most likely V6 will carry these plugin features in version 6 as standard as were lookin at an update within the first quarter of next year, when teh ZU1 is released-- If it is so, do you know if it supports frame accurate edits of the FX1's interlaced footage? Now that would be something!! --Vegas already does this with its "virtual" frames in your timeline. I frame and B frame problems are non existant. U dont have to worry bout GOP drop off/freezeframes as the software recognises that the frames are being replaced and resamples ll mpg2 frames anyway. On top of that, if yo supersample ur HDV footage, youll get almost zero aliasing. The FX1 is a brilliant camera and i know many companies ditching their broadcast gear to build a studio full of these cams. Theyre that good. The Digital Media Festival you mention..... Is it on soon? ---Mon tue wed 6 7 and 8 December in exhibition hall 6 darling harbour. Im at the NewMagic stand 9the guys who disribute Vegas and Lightwave here in Oz. --- At Sydney's Darling Harbour? If it is and I'm not working - or otherwise entangled - I might try to get down there with my FX1e and HD10u.... --groovy, come down and check out teh Pro HDV model of the FX1, it has built in 4:3 framing, XLR's, and afew other features within the menu system. Its also sexy black ;) im starting to wonder why anyone would want to purchase an XL2 after seeing these cameras in action.....

December 7th, 2004, 07:01 AM	#1642
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Convert the files using the Demo version of Cineform's codec, or convert the media to Huffyuv. If you use Cineform, getting 25p or 50i playback is crazy simple. Native m2t streams will NEVER playback at full rate on today's computers, MPEG is just simply cruel. Thanks for that DSE, what are u using for the conversion to Huffyyuv?? Were running the mpg2's which are already captured as Cineform codec files straight from the new plugin. If theres a way to get away with converting these to another format for decent editing without killing frames, id love to try it :)

December 7th, 2004, 11:53 AM	#1646
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Before the magic bullet filter, you could try this: Apply the color curves plug-in. Making it concave down (a curve that points to the top left) increases brightness, making it concave up decreases brightness. Making the curve look like a "S" increases contrast. Making it look like a s turned sideways decreases contrast. Bring up the histogram. You want it to look kinda even, so there's a good balance of shadows, midtones, and highlights. Adjust contrast and brightness with curves until you get that. What you're doing here is compensating for any under/overexposure. If the picture was under/overexposed then you will either have very little black diffusion going on or a lot of diffusion going on. *Side note: You can always make your histogram look very flat, although that may not always be desireable. For dark scenes, you may want just a few highlights in the picture (the histogram will on average slope to the right). For bright scenes that could be the opposite. 2- Try the black diffusion 5.0 preset. Increase grade all the way. 3- Bring up the checkerboard from Vegas' video generators and apply the black diffusion 5.0 preset to that.

December 8th, 2004, 02:13 AM	#1648
Viktor Carlquist Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Stockholm (Sweden) Posts: 30	Ive found these two: Scenalyzer http://www.scenalyzer.com/ CatDV http://www.squarebox.co.uk/catdv/ Scenalyzer is easy to use, and CATDV is a bit more advanced. To use the Capture feature in CATDV, you need to buy a third party plugin, and I haven´t found any good ones yet. There are lots of threads on this subject. Just search for DV logging logging tapes log tapes etc. __________________ Canon EOS 7D, Canon XM2, MA-300, Azden SGM-1x

December 8th, 2004, 06:47 AM	#1649
Ron Guilmette Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Hope Vally RI Posts: 30	Yep seventy two also. I guess the preset is the way to go. Thanks again. Ron.G

December 8th, 2004, 09:20 AM	#1650
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Thanks Viktor. I thought there WOULD be alot of threads, but could only find a couple. I probably didn't use the right keywords, but I tried a bunch of different ones. I had looked at Scenalyzer, but it seemed to be only a capture tool. CatDV looks interesting tho, and I will examine it in more detail. Any other suggestions from the group here?