Can't add points at DVinfo.net

Ron Cooper · June 16th, 2007, 06:39 AM

I have two simultaneous video tracks one above the other from different cameras & want to fade between them so as to switch between cameras but can't get any points on the top track to allow the lower track to come through.

I can get a fade-in effect OK but but sometimes the opacity line is white & other times it is blue. - I am wishing I was in Premiere because it was all so logical with its simple drag handles. I have spent ages trying to find references to this in the online manual but no joy.

Mark Harmer · June 16th, 2007, 07:08 AM

Ron, I don't know about the blue lines, but I'm assuming you basically want to keep both tracks locked in time with each other and then occasionally cut to what's on the bottom track as the timeline plays - and then back to the top etc.

To do this, select the top video timeline, position the cursor where you want to do the first "cut" and press the "S" key on your keyboard. That should split the top track at the cursor point. You now effectively have two bits of video, and just as in premiere pro you can peel either of the resulting ends of the track away from the cut position so you get to see the track underneath on the output. When you play from before this point, the output will go from "seeing" the top track to the bottom one, and then back to the top one. Once you've fine-tuned the points, you also have the option to drag the top of each of the "ends" to give you a mix rather than a cut, should you wish.

Also if you want to split the sound differently, just select the appropriate video track and hit the "U" key. This is the equivalent of "unlink" in Premiere pro. You can then adjust audio in/out point diffferently to the video.

Ron Cooper · June 16th, 2007, 07:41 AM

Thanks Mark. You understand exactly what I am trying to do. (and efficiently !) I hadn't thought of approaching it that way, - it works, but I can't follow why I am not getting the points as shown in the on-line manual.
At least now I can carry on editing.
Thanks again.

Mike Kujbida · June 16th, 2007, 08:08 AM

I'm not sure what "points" you're referring to but, since it sounds like you're editing a multi-camera piece, grab Vol.1 Issue 9 (PDF file so do a right-click save-as) of Edward Troxel's newsletter.
The first article, "Editing Multi-Cam Events" takes you through a few different ways of doing this.
My suggestion is to grab all of his newsletters as they're a valuable Vegas resource with lots of information.

Don Bloom · June 16th, 2007, 10:10 AM

YOu might look at the MASTER VIDEO BUS on the bottom of the timeline. You'll probably need to pull it up and then add an envelope 'Fade to Color' and that will give you the BLUE LINE on which you can add points to fade in and out.
I have found however that by simply cutting the multiple video tracks and then moving all the footage to a MASTER TRACK and fading or disolving there works a lot easier. I make it really easy by using Excalibur becaue it basically does all of that for me. I guess I'm lazy. ;-)

Don

Ron Cooper · June 16th, 2007, 11:33 PM

Thanks Don.
I am new to Vegas and after playing with it for a while, I am now trying to do a serious edit. As a hobbyist/amateur, I am spending a ridiculous amount of time at this, but I like to end up with a reasonably professional result, as I have previously done with Prem 6.5.

I now find that with this two camera edit, the top track/events, are unable to have points added on the blue line for fading up & down the opacity (as stated in my first post above), so I copied just the video track & placed it above, so I now have 3 tracks one on top t'other. BUT, when I cut sections from the top track the playline reads straight through to the lower track as if the middle track was not there. I have tried turning it off & on via the LHS mute menu but no luck & I don't quite follow the meaning of the compositing parent/child switch either. What have I done ??

Don Bloom · June 17th, 2007, 05:47 AM

OK lets start from the beginning.

First turn off parent child-you don't need it for this job.

Second-go back to the original 2 tracks you were using.

Clear everything else out.

Now we can get started. In Vegas there are a few different ways to do pretty much everything and since you don't seem to have either Excalibur or Ultimate S heres what we're going to do.

IF you need to cut the 2 tracks adjust the pan/crop of all events to 1440X960. It may seem counterintuitive to make it larger but trust me-it's the correct thing to do. It actually makes the image smaller. The easiest way to do this is to take the top track or number 1 camera and adjust 1 clip to size and also move it over to the LEFT-now copy and PASTE EVENT ATTRIBUTES to ALL the clips on that track. Do th esame for the next track or Camera 2 track EXCEPT move it to the RIGHT. Copy and PASTE EVENT ATTRIBUTES and now on your PREVIEW screen you should be seeing BOTH camera tracks next to each other. You with me? Good. Now you can see where you want to cut. go thru the footage and place a Marker (M) where you want the cuts. It might take a couple of minutes more to do this than to just hit S and split the clip but this way you can change your mind BEFORE you actually split it. Anyway NOW insert another track on the top of the timeline. Name it MASTER. Go thru the footage and (heres a trick to keep everything in sync) hit CNTL A to select ALL place the cursor over the first cut press S now all the footage is cut-video audio both tracks. I do this to keep me straight and everything syncd. Move down the time line and continue cutting and OH BTW-to move that split clip to the MASTER VIDEO TRACK highlight it and use the number pad number 8 to move it up without it moving left or right on you. Once you have all of the video clips on the master track NOW you can do the fades or disolves you need and now you can DELETE the TRACKS you don't need. Set up ONE track for audio and you're basically finished.
there is actually a bit more to it but lets get thru this first. It seemed that you were trying to dissolve with 2 or more tracks of video and while you CAN do that I think this is a bit easier and hey if you don't need the footage why keep it in the project.

FINAL POINT: When you have added the footage to the MASTER TRACK go to the FIRST CLIP and right click>RESTORE VIEW then copy and select ALL and PASTE EVENT ATTRIBUTES to the rest of the clips to remove the PANCROP and restore the full size of the clip.

HTHS
Don

Mark Harmer · June 17th, 2007, 07:52 AM

Hey Don - thank you - I'll try this too on my next multicam edit.

Ron Cooper · June 17th, 2007, 09:35 AM

Thanks again Don.
I am trying to follow your instructions precisely, so have re-started it now as a fresh project. But I'm not sure how to turn off the parent child and to re-size the pan crop. In the event pan/crop window, I can vary the width to 1440 but the height goes to 1150. I am working in PAL widescreen so assume this is OK. Now I have pasted the attributes to the two events on different tracks so that they are beside each other - (not below) so they are not syncd. Is this correct ? But I don't quite follow the reason for re-sizing as I now get a smaller pix in the monitor window but only one at a time depending where I place the cursor. How do I see two images as there is only one track at any given spot on the timeline. Also, as they are not syncd. it is going to be difficult to mark each event in the same spot as the cameras are not necessarily showing the same view.
It is a short opera, and one camera was mainly showing the stage where the other was showing the orchestra. That is why I thought it necessary to have them synced one above the other & cut between the two, as I have easily done previously in Premiere.

Ron.

Ron Cooper · June 17th, 2007, 09:42 AM

[QUOTE=Mike Kujbida;697656]I'm not sure what "points" you're referring to but, since it sounds like you're editing a multi-camera piece, grab Vol.1 Issue 9 (PDF file so do a right-click save-as) of Edward Troxel's newsletter.

Thanks Mike for the links, - most interesting. I have printed most of them out to read thru. the points I referred to are, I guess, key frames on the opacity line to vary the viewing of two syncd. tracks above each other.

Ron

June 16th, 2007, 06:39 AM	#1
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Can't add points I have two simultaneous video tracks one above the other from different cameras & want to fade between them so as to switch between cameras but can't get any points on the top track to allow the lower track to come through. I can get a fade-in effect OK but but sometimes the opacity line is white & other times it is blue. - I am wishing I was in Premiere because it was all so logical with its simple drag handles. I have spent ages trying to find references to this in the online manual but no joy.

June 16th, 2007, 11:33 PM	#6
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Confused Thanks Don. I am new to Vegas and after playing with it for a while, I am now trying to do a serious edit. As a hobbyist/amateur, I am spending a ridiculous amount of time at this, but I like to end up with a reasonably professional result, as I have previously done with Prem 6.5. I now find that with this two camera edit, the top track/events, are unable to have points added on the blue line for fading up & down the opacity (as stated in my first post above), so I copied just the video track & placed it above, so I now have 3 tracks one on top t'other. BUT, when I cut sections from the top track the playline reads straight through to the lower track as if the middle track was not there. I have tried turning it off & on via the LHS mute menu but no luck & I don't quite follow the meaning of the compositing parent/child switch either. What have I done ??

June 17th, 2007, 05:47 AM	#7
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	OK lets start from the beginning. First turn off parent child-you don't need it for this job. Second-go back to the original 2 tracks you were using. Clear everything else out. Now we can get started. In Vegas there are a few different ways to do pretty much everything and since you don't seem to have either Excalibur or Ultimate S heres what we're going to do. IF you need to cut the 2 tracks adjust the pan/crop of all events to 1440X960. It may seem counterintuitive to make it larger but trust me-it's the correct thing to do. It actually makes the image smaller. The easiest way to do this is to take the top track or number 1 camera and adjust 1 clip to size and also move it over to the LEFT-now copy and PASTE EVENT ATTRIBUTES to ALL the clips on that track. Do th esame for the next track or Camera 2 track EXCEPT move it to the RIGHT. Copy and PASTE EVENT ATTRIBUTES and now on your PREVIEW screen you should be seeing BOTH camera tracks next to each other. You with me? Good. Now you can see where you want to cut. go thru the footage and place a Marker (M) where you want the cuts. It might take a couple of minutes more to do this than to just hit S and split the clip but this way you can change your mind BEFORE you actually split it. Anyway NOW insert another track on the top of the timeline. Name it MASTER. Go thru the footage and (heres a trick to keep everything in sync) hit CNTL A to select ALL place the cursor over the first cut press S now all the footage is cut-video audio both tracks. I do this to keep me straight and everything syncd. Move down the time line and continue cutting and OH BTW-to move that split clip to the MASTER VIDEO TRACK highlight it and use the number pad number 8 to move it up without it moving left or right on you. Once you have all of the video clips on the master track NOW you can do the fades or disolves you need and now you can DELETE the TRACKS you don't need. Set up ONE track for audio and you're basically finished. there is actually a bit more to it but lets get thru this first. It seemed that you were trying to dissolve with 2 or more tracks of video and while you CAN do that I think this is a bit easier and hey if you don't need the footage why keep it in the project. FINAL POINT: When you have added the footage to the MASTER TRACK go to the FIRST CLIP and right click>RESTORE VIEW then copy and select ALL and PASTE EVENT ATTRIBUTES to the rest of the clips to remove the PANCROP and restore the full size of the clip. HTHS Don Last edited by Don Bloom; June 17th, 2007 at 07:23 AM. Reason: to add final explaination

June 16th, 2007, 07:08 AM	#2
Mark Harmer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moreton in Marsh, United Kingdom Posts: 96	Ron, I don't know about the blue lines, but I'm assuming you basically want to keep both tracks locked in time with each other and then occasionally cut to what's on the bottom track as the timeline plays - and then back to the top etc. To do this, select the top video timeline, position the cursor where you want to do the first "cut" and press the "S" key on your keyboard. That should split the top track at the cursor point. You now effectively have two bits of video, and just as in premiere pro you can peel either of the resulting ends of the track away from the cut position so you get to see the track underneath on the output. When you play from before this point, the output will go from "seeing" the top track to the bottom one, and then back to the top one. Once you've fine-tuned the points, you also have the option to drag the top of each of the "ends" to give you a mix rather than a cut, should you wish. Also if you want to split the sound differently, just select the appropriate video track and hit the "U" key. This is the equivalent of "unlink" in Premiere pro. You can then adjust audio in/out point diffferently to the video.

June 16th, 2007, 07:41 AM	#3
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Thanks Mark. You understand exactly what I am trying to do. (and efficiently !) I hadn't thought of approaching it that way, - it works, but I can't follow why I am not getting the points as shown in the on-line manual. At least now I can carry on editing. Thanks again.

June 16th, 2007, 08:08 AM	#4
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	I'm not sure what "points" you're referring to but, since it sounds like you're editing a multi-camera piece, grab Vol.1 Issue 9 (PDF file so do a right-click save-as) of Edward Troxel's newsletter. The first article, "Editing Multi-Cam Events" takes you through a few different ways of doing this. My suggestion is to grab all of his newsletters as they're a valuable Vegas resource with lots of information.

June 16th, 2007, 10:10 AM	#5
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	YOu might look at the MASTER VIDEO BUS on the bottom of the timeline. You'll probably need to pull it up and then add an envelope 'Fade to Color' and that will give you the BLUE LINE on which you can add points to fade in and out. I have found however that by simply cutting the multiple video tracks and then moving all the footage to a MASTER TRACK and fading or disolving there works a lot easier. I make it really easy by using Excalibur becaue it basically does all of that for me. I guess I'm lazy. ;-) Don

June 17th, 2007, 07:52 AM	#8
Mark Harmer Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Moreton in Marsh, United Kingdom Posts: 96	Hey Don - thank you - I'll try this too on my next multicam edit.

June 17th, 2007, 09:35 AM	#9
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	Thanks again Don. I am trying to follow your instructions precisely, so have re-started it now as a fresh project. But I'm not sure how to turn off the parent child and to re-size the pan crop. In the event pan/crop window, I can vary the width to 1440 but the height goes to 1150. I am working in PAL widescreen so assume this is OK. Now I have pasted the attributes to the two events on different tracks so that they are beside each other - (not below) so they are not syncd. Is this correct ? But I don't quite follow the reason for re-sizing as I now get a smaller pix in the monitor window but only one at a time depending where I place the cursor. How do I see two images as there is only one track at any given spot on the timeline. Also, as they are not syncd. it is going to be difficult to mark each event in the same spot as the cameras are not necessarily showing the same view. It is a short opera, and one camera was mainly showing the stage where the other was showing the orchestra. That is why I thought it necessary to have them synced one above the other & cut between the two, as I have easily done previously in Premiere. Ron.

June 17th, 2007, 09:42 AM	#10
Ron Cooper Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 481	[QUOTE=Mike Kujbida;697656]I'm not sure what "points" you're referring to but, since it sounds like you're editing a multi-camera piece, grab Vol.1 Issue 9 (PDF file so do a right-click save-as) of Edward Troxel's newsletter. Thanks Mike for the links, - most interesting. I have printed most of them out to read thru. the points I referred to are, I guess, key frames on the opacity line to vary the viewing of two syncd. tracks above each other. Ron