Will the Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz edit and playback .m2t HDV files smoothly? at DVinfo.net

Alex Thames · June 11th, 2007, 11:25 PM

My laptop is too slow to edit native .m2t HDV files from my Sony HVR-A1U camera (been tolerating it too long), so I'm building a desktop.

Will this system be able to preview .m2t files on Vegas 7.0e in the preview window smoothly and be able to play these .m2t files smoothly in something like Windows Player Classic? I want to be able to not have to render the .m2t files out to a Cineform intermediary (which end up 4x the size of the original .m2t file and the rendering times are painful). Just want to edit .m2t as I can with normal DV.

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz LGA 775 Processor (this is the cheapest, lowest Core 2 CPU)
*NOTE: I do plan on upgrading to the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz next month when the prices are supposed to drop significantly, which I'm sure will handle everything fine, but my question is whether this cheap E4300 CPU will do the job for now (for the next month)?

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard

2gb Memory (maybe I'll go for 4gb though): OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066mhz (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

Power Supply Unit: Antec 500W Neo HE (High Efficiency) (I know a lot of people don't think this is enough wattage, but I think it'll be fine, and if not, then I'll get a 750W)

Case: Antec Nine Hundred

Graphics Card (GPU): Nvidia 8600 GTS (MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256EZ HD GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Silent Heatpipe Video Card)

Audio Card: None or maybe Creative Sound Blaster SB0570 Audigy SE 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card

500gb Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular Recording) ST3500630AS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s

DVD Burner: some cheap 18x or 20x burner

Monitor: one of these: 22" Samsung 226BW (hopefully S panel), 22" HP W2207, or 24" BenQ FP241WZ

Speakers: Creative Inspire P7800 90 Watts 7.1 Speaker

Mouse/Keyboard: Logitech 967562-0403 2-Tone 103 Normal Keys 15 Function Keys USB Bluetooth Wireless Slim diNovo Media w/ Desktop Laser Mouse

David Newman · June 12th, 2007, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

...Will this system be able to preview .m2t files on Vegas 7.0e in the preview window smoothly and be able to play these .m2t files smoothly in something like Windows Player Classic? I want to be able to not have to render the .m2t files out to a Cineform intermediary (which end up 4x the size of the original .m2t file and the rendering times are painful). Just want to edit .m2t as I can with normal DV....

We are still a few years away from M2T files playing like DV.

Regard "and the rendering times are painful.", that is only because you are trying to use the free license included in Vegas. If you try NEO HDV, you will be able to capture your M2T files and convert directly into an AVI at nearly 1:1 speed, even on your selected CPU -- therefore no rendering time. Now your post rendering will be faster (including smart render support) and much higher quality.

Jon McGuffin · June 12th, 2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Newman

We are still a few years away from M2T files playing like DV.

Regard "and the rendering times are painful.", that is only because you are trying to use the free license included in Vegas. If you try NEO HDV, you will be able to capture your M2T files and convert directly into an AVI at nearly 1:1 speed, even on your selected CPU -- therefore no rendering time. Now your post rendering will be faster (including smart render support) and much higher quality.

David, are you saying that re-encoded files from the Cineform .avi files will produce superior results than encoding from .m2t files?

To ask another way, if I'm creating Mpeg4 .mov files, or WMV 9 files from the timeline in Vegas, if I use Cineform source media to render it will be faster and of higher quality?

jon

David Newman · June 12th, 2007, 04:55 PM

It is higher quality if you ever have to go through a multiple generations -- common if you do any compositing. It is faster for encoding to other formats also, although the encoding time for MPEG4 is such a large factor this is not a big deal.

Alex Thames · June 12th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Well, in any case, like I said I want to edit .m2t natively on the Vegas timeline. Not have to change it into any sort of intermediary with Cineform or any other stuff. I know with Vegas 7.0e, direct .m2t editing is possible provided you have a snappy enough computer. Getting things like Neo HDV are out of the question for me.

Simply put, my question would be: can the E4300 CPU edit .m2t directly on the Vegas 7.0e timeline? Will the .m2t files play in the preview window of Vegas smoothly without lagging? Will the .m2t files play smoothly in a player like Windows Classic Player without lagging?

And the video card, if it affects anything, is the Nvidia 8600 GTS, which I hear is the best at HD playback for h.264 (but I don't think that is .m2t).

Jon McGuffin · June 12th, 2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

Well, in any case, like I said I want to edit .m2t natively on the Vegas timeline. Not have to change it into any sort of intermediary with Cineform or any other stuff. I know with Vegas 7.0e, direct .m2t editing is possible provided you have a snappy enough computer. Getting things like Neo HDV are out of the question for me.

Simply put, my question would be: can the E4300 CPU edit .m2t directly on the Vegas 7.0e timeline? Will the .m2t files play in the preview window of Vegas smoothly without lagging? Will the .m2t files play smoothly in a player like Windows Classic Player without lagging?

And the video card, if it affects anything, is the Nvidia 8600 GTS, which I hear is the best at HD playback for h.264 (but I don't think that is .m2t).

I play .m2t files directly on the timeline with my E6600 and in Windows Media player without a hitch. Of course, when I add transitions, fades, etc, etc there are times is can slow down a bit but Vegas does a really good job of handling native HDV files. With your system spec, I think you'd be fine.

As for knocking Neo HDV, I'm not so sure why. Capture and conversion is essentially realtime and you are left with *both* .m2t and .avi files to work with so it's no "extra inconvienience" to you for using the software. You may find these might be better to work with.

Jon

Marcus Marchesseault · June 12th, 2007, 06:40 PM

"*NOTE: I do plan on upgrading to the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz next month when the prices are supposed to drop significantly, which I'm sure will handle everything fine, but my question is whether this cheap E4300 CPU will do the job for now (for the next month)?"

Why throw away over $100? If you are sure the Quad will fall in price next month, just wait. If it isn't going to get affordable soon, you will be using a mediocre processor for a while. Either spend an extra $100 on an E6600 now and wait for a new generation of chips or wait. Do you really think the price drop will be over $100 to compensate for the cost of the E4300? The Quad just dropped in price in late April. Since it's the only affordable quadcore processor available, why would they drop the price again?

Jon McGuffin · June 12th, 2007, 06:58 PM

I completely agree with the post above. Why spend a needless $125 on the E4300 now so that in 30 days you can save how much on the Quad Core? If you dont save at least $125 you're behind the game. And I agree that I do not think you are going to see a 20-25% price drop in the Quad's within a month.

Either go for the Quad now, wait 30 days and buy your computer then, or if money is too tight, go for an E6600 and live with it until some Quad Core in a year from now is $150-$200 bucks.

Jon

Jim Ohair · June 12th, 2007, 10:03 PM

If you read up on the e4300 you will find that is more than a mediocre chip. It easily overclocks to 2.7 on stock cooling and just flies. Look at the render tests and you will see that for the price of a good dinner (minus good wine ) you will see plenty of improvement. If you point me to some .m2t HDV files I can tell you exactly if they play in small preview or on draft only.

Oren Arieli · June 12th, 2007, 10:16 PM

Just a word of note, go with the Creative Labs X-Fi cards, as they offload the audio processing to a very capable unit, freeing up some clock cycles. I'd love to hear your feedback on the 900 case, Tons of cooling (very good), but too much noise? (not good). I'm going to be building my 3rd edit system soon enough. Antec P180/182 case is high on my list for build quality and sound dampening.

Alex Thames · June 13th, 2007, 12:04 AM

I need something to work with immediately, right now. I cannot wait another month. Max I can wait is maybe one more week. That's the only reason I'm throwing money at a cheapo CPU for this month. Plus, I will be able to build a new comp with that CPU and there will be someone I can give it to you use in my family who does not need a super powerful computer.

I'm not knocking Neo HDV. I just can't afford it...unless it's free?

And I have reason to believe the price of the quad core will drop a lot next month. There are many people who agree with me on this prediction. Of course, it's not a guarantee, but it's a very educated guess that many people arrived at at various computer forums.

Jon McGuffin · June 13th, 2007, 08:35 AM

Well, then by all means, I think you take the suggestion above and pickup an X-Fi and go with the cheapo CPU.

I still think peformance will be adequate with that CPU. Just overclock it for a month or so and you can easily get E6600 level performance which I can say first hand is good.

Jon

Alex Thames · June 13th, 2007, 01:38 PM

Unfortunately, I won't be able to get the X-Fi card. In fact, I probably won't be getting any sound card and just use the onboard sound. I think it should be okay for this month though. And when I switch to quad core, I'm sure that will be plenty enough to handle things.

As far as the Antec 900 case - no clue. Haven't turned it on yet. I'm still building the computer, however from other reviews, it's not as loud as you might think. The main concern I have with it is that the top fan (200mm) has lots of ventilation holes covering it, which means dust will settle into your case. So if your comp isn't on, I'd leave a piece of paper on top to cover it. It also doesn't have a removable motherboard tray, and I don't think it has cable management.

Alastair Brown · June 13th, 2007, 02:41 PM

OK, why not splash a little more and get a Core 2 Duo laptop for the moment. That way you win win. Next month you get your Quad Core AND you have the beneifit of having a Laptop to work on as and when you feel the need. I sometimes like to edit using an external drive whilst in the garden or on the bed or in a variety of intersting and unusual poses!

Alex Thames · June 13th, 2007, 03:39 PM

That doesn't really make sense. Laptop are hundreds of dollars, if not thousands. The cheap CPU is around $100-$135. I'm already getting all the other computer parts now...the only part I'd swap out in the end is the CPU - the $100 one for the quad core chip.

Thanks for the advice. I'll probably order the CPU tonight.

June 11th, 2007, 11:25 PM	#1
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Will the Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz edit and playback .m2t HDV files smoothly? My laptop is too slow to edit native .m2t HDV files from my Sony HVR-A1U camera (been tolerating it too long), so I'm building a desktop. Will this system be able to preview .m2t files on Vegas 7.0e in the preview window smoothly and be able to play these .m2t files smoothly in something like Windows Player Classic? I want to be able to not have to render the .m2t files out to a Cineform intermediary (which end up 4x the size of the original .m2t file and the rendering times are painful). Just want to edit .m2t as I can with normal DV. CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz LGA 775 Processor (this is the cheapest, lowest Core 2 CPU) *NOTE: I do plan on upgrading to the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz next month when the prices are supposed to drop significantly, which I'm sure will handle everything fine, but my question is whether this cheap E4300 CPU will do the job for now (for the next month)? Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35C-DS3R LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard 2gb Memory (maybe I'll go for 4gb though): OCZ Platinum 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066mhz (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Power Supply Unit: Antec 500W Neo HE (High Efficiency) (I know a lot of people don't think this is enough wattage, but I think it'll be fine, and if not, then I'll get a 750W) Case: Antec Nine Hundred Graphics Card (GPU): Nvidia 8600 GTS (MSI NX8600GTS-T2D256EZ HD GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Silent Heatpipe Video Card) Audio Card: None or maybe Creative Sound Blaster SB0570 Audigy SE 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card 500gb Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular Recording) ST3500630AS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s DVD Burner: some cheap 18x or 20x burner Monitor: one of these: 22" Samsung 226BW (hopefully S panel), 22" HP W2207, or 24" BenQ FP241WZ Speakers: Creative Inspire P7800 90 Watts 7.1 Speaker Mouse/Keyboard: Logitech 967562-0403 2-Tone 103 Normal Keys 15 Function Keys USB Bluetooth Wireless Slim diNovo Media w/ Desktop Laser Mouse

June 12th, 2007, 04:55 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	It is higher quality if you ever have to go through a multiple generations -- common if you do any compositing. It is faster for encoding to other formats also, although the encoding time for MPEG4 is such a large factor this is not a big deal. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

June 12th, 2007, 10:16 PM	#10
Oren Arieli Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 919	Sound Card Just a word of note, go with the Creative Labs X-Fi cards, as they offload the audio processing to a very capable unit, freeing up some clock cycles. I'd love to hear your feedback on the 900 case, Tons of cooling (very good), but too much noise? (not good). I'm going to be building my 3rd edit system soon enough. Antec P180/182 case is high on my list for build quality and sound dampening.

June 13th, 2007, 12:04 AM	#11
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	I need something to work with immediately, right now. I cannot wait another month. Max I can wait is maybe one more week. That's the only reason I'm throwing money at a cheapo CPU for this month. Plus, I will be able to build a new comp with that CPU and there will be someone I can give it to you use in my family who does not need a super powerful computer. I'm not knocking Neo HDV. I just can't afford it...unless it's free? And I have reason to believe the price of the quad core will drop a lot next month. There are many people who agree with me on this prediction. Of course, it's not a guarantee, but it's a very educated guess that many people arrived at at various computer forums. Last edited by Alex Thames; June 13th, 2007 at 01:35 PM.

June 12th, 2007, 05:54 PM	#5
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Well, in any case, like I said I want to edit .m2t natively on the Vegas timeline. Not have to change it into any sort of intermediary with Cineform or any other stuff. I know with Vegas 7.0e, direct .m2t editing is possible provided you have a snappy enough computer. Getting things like Neo HDV are out of the question for me. Simply put, my question would be: can the E4300 CPU edit .m2t directly on the Vegas 7.0e timeline? Will the .m2t files play in the preview window of Vegas smoothly without lagging? Will the .m2t files play smoothly in a player like Windows Classic Player without lagging? And the video card, if it affects anything, is the Nvidia 8600 GTS, which I hear is the best at HD playback for h.264 (but I don't think that is .m2t).

June 12th, 2007, 06:40 PM	#7
Marcus Marchesseault Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,961	"*NOTE: I do plan on upgrading to the Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz next month when the prices are supposed to drop significantly, which I'm sure will handle everything fine, but my question is whether this cheap E4300 CPU will do the job for now (for the next month)?" Why throw away over $100? If you are sure the Quad will fall in price next month, just wait. If it isn't going to get affordable soon, you will be using a mediocre processor for a while. Either spend an extra $100 on an E6600 now and wait for a new generation of chips or wait. Do you really think the price drop will be over $100 to compensate for the cost of the E4300? The Quad just dropped in price in late April. Since it's the only affordable quadcore processor available, why would they drop the price again?

June 12th, 2007, 06:58 PM	#8
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	I completely agree with the post above. Why spend a needless $125 on the E4300 now so that in 30 days you can save how much on the Quad Core? If you dont save at least $125 you're behind the game. And I agree that I do not think you are going to see a 20-25% price drop in the Quad's within a month. Either go for the Quad now, wait 30 days and buy your computer then, or if money is too tight, go for an E6600 and live with it until some Quad Core in a year from now is $150-$200 bucks. Jon

June 12th, 2007, 10:03 PM	#9
Jim Ohair Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Laguna Niguel, California Posts: 62	If you read up on the e4300 you will find that is more than a mediocre chip. It easily overclocks to 2.7 on stock cooling and just flies. Look at the render tests and you will see that for the price of a good dinner (minus good wine ) you will see plenty of improvement. If you point me to some .m2t HDV files I can tell you exactly if they play in small preview or on draft only.

June 13th, 2007, 08:35 AM	#12
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	Well, then by all means, I think you take the suggestion above and pickup an X-Fi and go with the cheapo CPU. I still think peformance will be adequate with that CPU. Just overclock it for a month or so and you can easily get E6600 level performance which I can say first hand is good. Jon

June 13th, 2007, 01:38 PM	#13
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Unfortunately, I won't be able to get the X-Fi card. In fact, I probably won't be getting any sound card and just use the onboard sound. I think it should be okay for this month though. And when I switch to quad core, I'm sure that will be plenty enough to handle things. As far as the Antec 900 case - no clue. Haven't turned it on yet. I'm still building the computer, however from other reviews, it's not as loud as you might think. The main concern I have with it is that the top fan (200mm) has lots of ventilation holes covering it, which means dust will settle into your case. So if your comp isn't on, I'd leave a piece of paper on top to cover it. It also doesn't have a removable motherboard tray, and I don't think it has cable management.

June 13th, 2007, 02:41 PM	#14
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	OK, why not splash a little more and get a Core 2 Duo laptop for the moment. That way you win win. Next month you get your Quad Core AND you have the beneifit of having a Laptop to work on as and when you feel the need. I sometimes like to edit using an external drive whilst in the garden or on the bed or in a variety of intersting and unusual poses!

June 13th, 2007, 03:39 PM	#15
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	That doesn't really make sense. Laptop are hundreds of dollars, if not thousands. The cheap CPU is around $100-$135. I'm already getting all the other computer parts now...the only part I'd swap out in the end is the CPU - the $100 one for the quad core chip. Thanks for the advice. I'll probably order the CPU tonight.