Audio Editing with Sony Software at DVinfo.net

Alex Thames · May 10th, 2007, 06:07 PM

I know this is a Vegas forum, but I don't see anywhere else to put this.

What is the difference between all of Sony's audio software? Cinescore, Acid, SoundForge, and the stuff that Vegas itself can do in terms of audio?

I know that Vegas itself has some audio tools, but I don't think they are enough compared to dedicated audio editing programs offer, which Sony does seem to have.

Don Bloom · May 10th, 2007, 06:37 PM

Well Vegas started as an audio editing tool and the tools it has by itself are really superb.
However to answer you question let's take Cinescore. This is not really an editing tool it takes music (I believe you have to use the paks as purchased from Sony I could be wrong) and with basically the push of a button or 2 you can take that music and rescore it to work with a piece of video footage. It obviously does more than that but thats the jist.
Acid is more of a composition program. You can compose music with it and I THINK you can use those pieces in Cinescore but I could be wrong.
Now for real audio editing Sound Forge is the top dog, it's the cat's meow, its the...well you get the picture. SF is a TRUE audio editing program.
One of the beauties of the family of Vegas, SF, Acid and Cinescore is that it's all compatible.

Perhaps DSE or someone else can get in here and give you a far more detailed picture of the differences.

Don

Seth Bloombaum · May 10th, 2007, 06:50 PM

I'll have a go at this, though I'm sure others on this forum have more experience with Cinescore and Acid.

Cinescore - primarily a music scoring program, using themepacks developed by Sony. Cool if you need to knock out a score if: you need it quick, if use of themes that others are also using is cool, if you have limited musicianship/composition abilities.

Acid - In some ways similar to Cinescore, but accesses a lower level of pre-developed pieces known as loops. Getcher' drum track, lay on a bass track, how about dropping in your own melody from a midi keyboard, Acid is great for this kind of stuff. It'll take in loops, allow various operations on them, multi-track them, bring in midi control, etc.

Sound Forge - Until the most recent release, SF was a stereo-only program. Gives incredibly precise editing of tracks, has a very versatile recording module, allows Direct-X filters and VST from anyone to be applied, easily edits down to the sample level, has some cool features above what Vegas will provide. With SF9 released at NAB, it is now multitrack as well, and should be a good tool for dealing with multichannel WAV, aka broadcast WAV, as well as encoding to AC3. (I've not yet spent any time with 9.) 9 now also includes some mastering efx from Ozone (good stuff), incorporates CD Architect for standards-compliant Audio CDs, and includes Noise Reduction 2.0, pretty darn good for NR.

Vegas - As far as audio goes, an excellent multichannel mixing environment. A pretty decent set of timecode tools, for those of us who are recording in formats with TC. 2 tracks, 24 tracks, whatever, it is the king of mixing multichannel sound for video, and does a pretty darn good job at most audio editing tasks as well. Vegas is no slouch when it comes to audio.

However... To some extent all these apps are meeting in the middle, with Cinescore having the ability to lay down a narration track, all of them able to show/sync a video track, etc.

Mike Kujbida · May 10th, 2007, 07:09 PM

Seth pretty much nailed it.
I'll only add that I have a co-worker who runs a recording studio on the side.
Logic Audio is his primary production tool but he's also produced a few CDs using only Vegas and both he and his clients have been quite pleased with the results.

Alex Thames · May 10th, 2007, 08:25 PM

Thanks guys.

What about programs like:
Siren
and all the variants of the previous:
Sound Forge Audio Suite
Sound Forge XP
Acid Pro
Acid Music Studio
Acid XMC
Vegas Movie Studio
Vegas Movie Studio Plantinum
etc.

Mike Kujbida · May 10th, 2007, 08:35 PM

Siren??

I use Vegas 7, Sound Forge 9 and Cinescore so I'll have to refer you to the following:
Sound Forge 9 vs. Sound Forge Audio Studio
ACID Product Family Comparison
Vegas Family Comparison

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 10th, 2007, 09:53 PM

Siren was a LONG gone media player from Sonic Foundry. It never was a Sony software product. Sony has a *game* called "Siren" for the PS, but that's not the same thing at all.
'Bout the only place you can find Siren software is on the warez sites.

Jon Fairhurst · May 11th, 2007, 11:18 AM

Being a composer, I wouldn't call Cinescore a scoring or composing application. It's more a sculpting tool - you sculpt pre-composed pieces to fit your video. The risk is that your music will sound just like the next guy's.

ACID is awesome at composing with loops. If you're doing techno or hip hop, get it, and buy some loop packages. My kids were able to assemble reasonable beat music using ACID when they were in second grade. ACID also supports multi-track recording and some basic MIDI sequencing. ACID's MIDI still doesn't do what Cakewalk offered in 1997. Get Sonar, Cubase, Logic or Digital Performer for serious MIDI work. Hopefully ACID 8 will get a decent MIDI package.

Vegas is the best audio multi-tracker of the line. ACID does some funny stuff with beatmapping for loops that is hard to disable, and can majorly screw up your recordings and renders. Vegas is the hands-down winner if you're just doing straight audio. After sequencing orchestral MIDI in Sonar and GigaStudio, I render the audio tracks and do all of my final mixing in Vegas.

SoundForge is really for editing single audio files. Let's say you want to deepen a lions roar. Or you want to noise reduce a dialog track. Or you want to reverse the sound of an arrow's whoosh. Or remove crackle from an old recording. Use SoundForge. The latest version comes with noise reduction and mastering tools (multiband compressor, limiter...) as standard components.

Each tool has its own unique strength. In general it's a really solid set. I sure wish they'd update ACID's MIDI to be competitive and kill beatmapping on renders though...

I own all except Cinescore.

Dawn Haynesobrien · May 25th, 2007, 11:38 AM

Can anyone comment on how ProTools varies from Sound Forge? Do these essentially do the same thing?

Mike Kujbida · May 25th, 2007, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn Haynesobrien

Can anyone comment on how ProTools varies from Sound Forge? Do these essentially do the same thing?

No they don't. Pro Tools is better compared to Vegas in that it's a multi-track audio program. Until version 9, Sound Forge was limited to 2 tracks and is more of a mastering program (i.e. do a final clean up of any audio abnormalities before making your master). Sound Forge also has a lot more tools than Vegas does for audio enhancement/modification/clean-up.

Vy Le · May 25th, 2007, 03:56 PM

I have had experience in working in Acid and I think its very similar to ProTools. Acid is basically the audio editing version of Vegas where it enables the user to use multi-tracks layers (hence the loops). I actually used Acid to edit sound and put sound FXs as well. I dont usually use SoundForge to edit sound as it directly edits the file (which can destroy your file if you're not careful) whereas Acid makes a reference of it when you edit (like Vegas).

May 10th, 2007, 06:07 PM	#1
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Audio Editing with Sony Software I know this is a Vegas forum, but I don't see anywhere else to put this. What is the difference between all of Sony's audio software? Cinescore, Acid, SoundForge, and the stuff that Vegas itself can do in terms of audio? I know that Vegas itself has some audio tools, but I don't think they are enough compared to dedicated audio editing programs offer, which Sony does seem to have.

May 10th, 2007, 09:53 PM	#7
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Siren was a LONG gone media player from Sonic Foundry. It never was a Sony software product. Sony has a game called "Siren" for the PS, but that's not the same thing at all. 'Bout the only place you can find Siren software is on the warez sites. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 11th, 2007, 11:18 AM	#8
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Being a composer, I wouldn't call Cinescore a scoring or composing application. It's more a sculpting tool - you sculpt pre-composed pieces to fit your video. The risk is that your music will sound just like the next guy's. ACID is awesome at composing with loops. If you're doing techno or hip hop, get it, and buy some loop packages. My kids were able to assemble reasonable beat music using ACID when they were in second grade. ACID also supports multi-track recording and some basic MIDI sequencing. ACID's MIDI still doesn't do what Cakewalk offered in 1997. Get Sonar, Cubase, Logic or Digital Performer for serious MIDI work. Hopefully ACID 8 will get a decent MIDI package. Vegas is the best audio multi-tracker of the line. ACID does some funny stuff with beatmapping for loops that is hard to disable, and can majorly screw up your recordings and renders. Vegas is the hands-down winner if you're just doing straight audio. After sequencing orchestral MIDI in Sonar and GigaStudio, I render the audio tracks and do all of my final mixing in Vegas. SoundForge is really for editing single audio files. Let's say you want to deepen a lions roar. Or you want to noise reduce a dialog track. Or you want to reverse the sound of an arrow's whoosh. Or remove crackle from an old recording. Use SoundForge. The latest version comes with noise reduction and mastering tools (multiband compressor, limiter...) as standard components. Each tool has its own unique strength. In general it's a really solid set. I sure wish they'd update ACID's MIDI to be competitive and kill beatmapping on renders though... I own all except Cinescore. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

May 10th, 2007, 06:37 PM	#2
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Well Vegas started as an audio editing tool and the tools it has by itself are really superb. However to answer you question let's take Cinescore. This is not really an editing tool it takes music (I believe you have to use the paks as purchased from Sony I could be wrong) and with basically the push of a button or 2 you can take that music and rescore it to work with a piece of video footage. It obviously does more than that but thats the jist. Acid is more of a composition program. You can compose music with it and I THINK you can use those pieces in Cinescore but I could be wrong. Now for real audio editing Sound Forge is the top dog, it's the cat's meow, its the...well you get the picture. SF is a TRUE audio editing program. One of the beauties of the family of Vegas, SF, Acid and Cinescore is that it's all compatible. Perhaps DSE or someone else can get in here and give you a far more detailed picture of the differences. Don

May 10th, 2007, 06:50 PM	#3
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	I'll have a go at this, though I'm sure others on this forum have more experience with Cinescore and Acid. Cinescore - primarily a music scoring program, using themepacks developed by Sony. Cool if you need to knock out a score if: you need it quick, if use of themes that others are also using is cool, if you have limited musicianship/composition abilities. Acid - In some ways similar to Cinescore, but accesses a lower level of pre-developed pieces known as loops. Getcher' drum track, lay on a bass track, how about dropping in your own melody from a midi keyboard, Acid is great for this kind of stuff. It'll take in loops, allow various operations on them, multi-track them, bring in midi control, etc. Sound Forge - Until the most recent release, SF was a stereo-only program. Gives incredibly precise editing of tracks, has a very versatile recording module, allows Direct-X filters and VST from anyone to be applied, easily edits down to the sample level, has some cool features above what Vegas will provide. With SF9 released at NAB, it is now multitrack as well, and should be a good tool for dealing with multichannel WAV, aka broadcast WAV, as well as encoding to AC3. (I've not yet spent any time with 9.) 9 now also includes some mastering efx from Ozone (good stuff), incorporates CD Architect for standards-compliant Audio CDs, and includes Noise Reduction 2.0, pretty darn good for NR. Vegas - As far as audio goes, an excellent multichannel mixing environment. A pretty decent set of timecode tools, for those of us who are recording in formats with TC. 2 tracks, 24 tracks, whatever, it is the king of mixing multichannel sound for video, and does a pretty darn good job at most audio editing tasks as well. Vegas is no slouch when it comes to audio. However... To some extent all these apps are meeting in the middle, with Cinescore having the ability to lay down a narration track, all of them able to show/sync a video track, etc.

May 10th, 2007, 07:09 PM	#4
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Seth pretty much nailed it. I'll only add that I have a co-worker who runs a recording studio on the side. Logic Audio is his primary production tool but he's also produced a few CDs using only Vegas and both he and his clients have been quite pleased with the results.

May 10th, 2007, 08:25 PM	#5
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Thanks guys. What about programs like: Siren and all the variants of the previous: Sound Forge Audio Suite Sound Forge XP Acid Pro Acid Music Studio Acid XMC Vegas Movie Studio Vegas Movie Studio Plantinum etc.

May 10th, 2007, 08:35 PM	#6
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Siren?? I use Vegas 7, Sound Forge 9 and Cinescore so I'll have to refer you to the following: Sound Forge 9 vs. Sound Forge Audio Studio ACID Product Family Comparison Vegas Family Comparison

May 25th, 2007, 11:38 AM	#9
Dawn Haynesobrien New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Seattle, WA - USA Posts: 19	Can anyone comment on how ProTools varies from Sound Forge? Do these essentially do the same thing?

May 25th, 2007, 03:56 PM	#11
Vy Le Tourist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Garden Grove, CA Posts: 2	I have had experience in working in Acid and I think its very similar to ProTools. Acid is basically the audio editing version of Vegas where it enables the user to use multi-tracks layers (hence the loops). I actually used Acid to edit sound and put sound FXs as well. I dont usually use SoundForge to edit sound as it directly edits the file (which can destroy your file if you're not careful) whereas Acid makes a reference of it when you edit (like Vegas).