24p in Vegas. . .I think I'm lost

Josh Bass · April 30th, 2003, 11:57 PM

Yeah. . .the "film" motion only matters on a TV. On my computer, video does play at what looks like 24fps when I watch it in a quicktime movie player or the vegas preview window.

Bob Benkosky · May 1st, 2003, 12:04 AM

Exactly. Another thing that sucks, is that unless you have a DVD burner, you can't get a good glimpse of what it's going to look like on TV unless you dump an uncompressed version(AVI) to S-VHS and watch it. It's just sad that you are losing alot of quality in doing so. DVD is the best right now. I guess you can simply watch it thru a video out right to the TV but it's still not the same because your computer video card's output still has that computer output, not DVD/VHS player look.

Bruce A. Christenson · May 1st, 2003, 12:35 AM

You can dump an uncompressed AVI back out to miniDV tape, then watch that on your TV via the cam's SVHS or composite output. That'll be the same/better than a DVD version. Also, you'll have a backup master of your film in case your hard drive goes bye bye.

Bob Benkosky · May 1st, 2003, 12:36 AM

Yea, I thought of that right after I posted. I forgot about the lossless transfer of DV in/out mode.

Josh Bass · May 1st, 2003, 12:37 AM

If your computer's up to snuff, it should be able to play in realtime from the timeline on your TV--provided you have a way of previewing your timeline through a TV. I tried this also. The 60i footage looks like 60i, and the 24p looks like 24p.

Josh Bass · May 1st, 2003, 05:09 PM

I'm still lost though. If I burn this 24p AVI file to a CD R, and then someone imports it into a 60i project. . .will it work the way it's supposed to? Would it be better to print the 24p file to a tape, and then have him import that?

Bruce A. Christenson · May 1st, 2003, 09:33 PM

It probably depends on what software they import it to :)

I'm not really sure. Life on the bleeding edge!

Josh Bass · May 2nd, 2003, 01:27 AM

It'll be Premiere. Don't know which version.

Dennis Adams · May 4th, 2003, 12:49 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : I'm going to be handing this off to another editor at some point. When he imports it from tape or a CD-R, will he import it as 24p or 29.97? It'll be a segment in a show, and the rest of the show is 29.97. If he moves this file into his 29.97 project, will it play correctly? Headache. . .ouch. -->>>

To answer your original quesions, Vegas 24p projects rendered to 24p AVI / DV can be treated as regular 60i DV in any other system that accepts AVI / DV.

///d@

Josh Bass · May 4th, 2003, 03:54 PM

But does it look right? Will the program know to do a 2-3 pulldown when importing the footage?

Dennis Adams · May 4th, 2003, 04:24 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : But does it look right? Will the program know to do a 2-3 pulldown when importing the footage? -->>>

Perfectly. Vegas does the 2-3 pulldown when it renders the file. It also marks it with the special "shooting frame rate" header so that if Vegas (or another DVX100 savvy NLE) reads the file, it will extract 24p again. Any other system, including DV hardware, will see it as 60i.

///d@

Josh Bass · May 4th, 2003, 11:48 PM

Thanks. The issue, I now realize, is irrelevant, because using the 24p template with uncompressed video makes the files huge! A 48 second file was like 1.5 Gigs!

Dennis Adams · May 5th, 2003, 12:08 AM

Why don't you use the template called "NTSC DV 24p (inserting 2-3 pulldown)" -- it will be 13G per hour of video, just like normal DV. Isn't that what you want?
///d@

Josh Bass · May 5th, 2003, 12:13 AM

Just tried it. Still get very noticeable blockiness in some shots. Only seems to look decent with uncompressed video.

Also, why, if the project itself is 24 fps, when I render uncompressed, does it squish the video vertically a little? It doesn't do this in a 29.97 project. Odd.

April 30th, 2003, 11:57 PM	#16
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Yeah. . .the "film" motion only matters on a TV. On my computer, video does play at what looks like 24fps when I watch it in a quicktime movie player or the vegas preview window. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 1st, 2003, 12:04 AM	#17
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	Exactly. Another thing that sucks, is that unless you have a DVD burner, you can't get a good glimpse of what it's going to look like on TV unless you dump an uncompressed version(AVI) to S-VHS and watch it. It's just sad that you are losing alot of quality in doing so. DVD is the best right now. I guess you can simply watch it thru a video out right to the TV but it's still not the same because your computer video card's output still has that computer output, not DVD/VHS player look. __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

May 1st, 2003, 12:36 AM	#19
Bob Benkosky Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Lake Park, Florida Posts: 202	Yea, I thought of that right after I posted. I forgot about the lossless transfer of DV in/out mode. __________________ http://www.veoh.com/channels/filmmaker My clips and films.

May 1st, 2003, 12:37 AM	#20
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	If your computer's up to snuff, it should be able to play in realtime from the timeline on your TV--provided you have a way of previewing your timeline through a TV. I tried this also. The 60i footage looks like 60i, and the 24p looks like 24p. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 1st, 2003, 05:09 PM	#21
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	I'm still lost though. If I burn this 24p AVI file to a CD R, and then someone imports it into a 60i project. . .will it work the way it's supposed to? Would it be better to print the 24p file to a tape, and then have him import that? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 1st, 2003, 12:35 AM	#18
Bruce A. Christenson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Forest Grove, OR Posts: 122	You can dump an uncompressed AVI back out to miniDV tape, then watch that on your TV via the cam's SVHS or composite output. That'll be the same/better than a DVD version. Also, you'll have a backup master of your film in case your hard drive goes bye bye.

May 1st, 2003, 09:33 PM	#22
Bruce A. Christenson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Forest Grove, OR Posts: 122	It probably depends on what software they import it to :) I'm not really sure. Life on the bleeding edge!

May 2nd, 2003, 01:27 AM	#23
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	It'll be Premiere. Don't know which version. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 4th, 2003, 12:49 PM	#24
Dennis Adams Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 123	Re: 24p in Vegas. . .I think I'm lost <<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : I'm going to be handing this off to another editor at some point. When he imports it from tape or a CD-R, will he import it as 24p or 29.97? It'll be a segment in a show, and the rest of the show is 29.97. If he moves this file into his 29.97 project, will it play correctly? Headache. . .ouch. -->>> To answer your original quesions, Vegas 24p projects rendered to 24p AVI / DV can be treated as regular 60i DV in any other system that accepts AVI / DV. ///d@

May 4th, 2003, 03:54 PM	#25
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	But does it look right? Will the program know to do a 2-3 pulldown when importing the footage? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 4th, 2003, 04:24 PM	#26
Dennis Adams Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 123	<<<-- Originally posted by Josh Bass : But does it look right? Will the program know to do a 2-3 pulldown when importing the footage? -->>> Perfectly. Vegas does the 2-3 pulldown when it renders the file. It also marks it with the special "shooting frame rate" header so that if Vegas (or another DVX100 savvy NLE) reads the file, it will extract 24p again. Any other system, including DV hardware, will see it as 60i. ///d@

May 4th, 2003, 11:48 PM	#27
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Thanks. The issue, I now realize, is irrelevant, because using the 24p template with uncompressed video makes the files huge! A 48 second file was like 1.5 Gigs! __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

May 5th, 2003, 12:08 AM	#28
Dennis Adams Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 123	Why don't you use the template called "NTSC DV 24p (inserting 2-3 pulldown)" -- it will be 13G per hour of video, just like normal DV. Isn't that what you want? ///d@

May 5th, 2003, 12:13 AM	#29
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Just tried it. Still get very noticeable blockiness in some shots. Only seems to look decent with uncompressed video. Also, why, if the project itself is 24 fps, when I render uncompressed, does it squish the video vertically a little? It doesn't do this in a 29.97 project. Odd. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB