What is with all of the Vegas Fanatics?

Adi Head · April 23rd, 2003, 02:32 PM

i too am interested in a comparison between xpress dv and vegas, but in the dv editing realm, not for cutting negetives.

Bill Ravens · April 23rd, 2003, 03:19 PM

I began with Premeire, moved to Pinnacle, and finally found V3...now V4. I can't say enough about the flexibility, ease of workflow and customer support that comes with this product. For DV users, this is THE NLE to us, bar none. I don't like FCP or MAC platforms. In terms of productivity and capability(compositing, effects, transitions, and audio) nothing can touch Vegas 4 in the DV world..unless, of course, you got REAL deep pockets.

David Mintzer · April 24th, 2003, 05:48 AM

Both are excellent---Vegas is stronger in Real Time Previews, Compositing and of course, Audio. Avid is good if you want to transport your project to other Avid systems and allows you lots of control of the interface.

Richard Alvarez · April 24th, 2003, 06:28 AM

"stronger in real time reviews"

Both systems give you real time previews. Both systems utilize processing power to "scale" the effectiveness of those previews. Vegas will drop frames as the going gets tough. Avid starts out by dropping a field... and keeps the frame rate constant. Different choices to achieve the same relative "real time" ability.
Vegas gives rt previews out firewire, avid uses either the Matrox parahelia card or the "McFly" system.

NOTE: The new MOJO box with Xpress Pro offers full res real time previews for up to five streams. See www.avid.com

David Mintzer · April 24th, 2003, 06:34 AM

I disagree---I have used both and Vegas is much more effective given the same variables. I found that there were several effects that Avid could not show real time previews for.

One thing that has been left out is the huge price swing between the two NLE's----Vegas is much cheaper. Anyhow, whatever you decide enjoy it.

Bill Ravens · April 24th, 2003, 07:13 AM

I've not had a dropped frame in 18 months of using Vegas. I know people have problems, but, they also don't know much about the mechanics of their computers. I might add that I never capture with Vegas, it's too cumbersome. My capturing tool is Scenealyzer Live...which I love.

Richard Alvarez · April 24th, 2003, 08:14 AM

No question in both platforms, that optimum configuration is the key.

I've never used Vegas, but I've sat behind a friend who was using it, and watched it drop frames as she added tracks.

I suspect that the system was not optimized properly. Much the same can happen in Avid. It has so many different settings to customize speed and style of renderings, it can be confusing.

Garret Ambrosio · April 24th, 2003, 08:05 PM

Like Dylan said, it just feels right. :) Hey, but...do people videotape funerals? How Macabre...

Richard Alvarez · April 25th, 2003, 04:47 AM

I always take comments like "More intuitive... less intuitive" with a grain of salt. It all depends on where you're coming from, what you know, what you have to "un-learn". It's a very subjective comment.

Garret Ambrosio · April 25th, 2003, 12:48 PM

I agree with Richard, but I guess if you are a PC user, Vegas is more intuitive, since amny of the mouse clicks, keystrokes are that of the OS while Premiere has a lot of Mac influence.

Mark Richman · April 25th, 2003, 02:25 PM

Yes computer mechanics are probably the main reason for frame drops. (My job is in computers)

If you are worth your weight in salt and doing video with a $2-3000 camera, you need to update that clunker.

I have met so many people that complain about their editing system. I ask "what are you using?" a Pentium 700 with a capture card, Adobe Premiere, 128 megs of memory and 3 80 gig drives.

You can build a serious machine/computer with 2.5+ gig CPU, 1 gig fast memory, and a 400 gig raid 0 array, for less than $1500. Software is another deal.

I am new to video but I just built this system and I have had frame drops in the first 2 minutes of one tape (out of the 15 I have captured from so far); I suspect the tape not the computer or the Vegas program.

So upgrade now, prices are cheap.

By the way, I am drooling over a Mac system with Final Cut Pro, but I can't afford it yet. The Dual G4's look sweet, but I just can't spend so much on dual processors that are that slow.

Back to the subject - Adobe, Avid, or Vegas are great, support them with some good hardware. Frame drops are subject to many variables other than software.

Vegas is so easy to learn and it is sooooo "intuitive", and it does feel "right" when you use it.

Listen to me, I have been able to edit for a couple days now, and I like what I am seeing.

Maybe I should post some film soon, so I can get some critiques,

Mark

Alex Knappenberger · April 25th, 2003, 02:30 PM

Whats the specs on your system that is dropping frames...?

My system is only:

AMD 1Ghz Athlon
Some crappy motherboard
256MB PC133 SDRAM
Western Digital 40GB & 13.6GB HDD's -- both only 5400rpm
ATI 32MB AIW video card

...and it never dropped a frame, ever, when capturing with Vegas 3 & 4.

(Yeah, I know, I need to upgrade, but I don't have a job, :D)

Garret Ambrosio · April 25th, 2003, 07:04 PM

Bill gates is cool because and only because he has arranged things so that I can bring home bacon to feed the wife and the two kids. But alex consider this, with everyone jumping on the MS band wagon in the early turn of the century, there are actually a shortage of folks who are dedicated Mac support people. My cousin supprts the Macs in UCSF and thoguh I give him hard time, like "Your OS is not even an OS, it is an application that runs under UNIX." and " OS X is nothing new, we called it Linux," Of course these statements are not 100% true and is meant to be insulting and it really gets under his skin...

I was going to flame on the Mac, but you know what? This is neither the forum nor the time to debate this useless debate sinc e I do not own stock in neither MS or Apple, but MS does help me feed my family. But I will say this, do not count out the Macs if you are lo0oking to enter the technical field professionally at this current economic state. It may be your way into companies who do a lot of production and is dedicated to Final Cut pro. BTW, a little tidbit, Pixar, a company owned by Steve Jobs uses PC's for everything, I know an animator...and also Billy Gates has an invested interest in Apple, so the lines are really blurry.

Joe Carney · April 28th, 2003, 01:39 PM

With vegas' new scripting features, there are some new scripts to handle EDL output for various systems.
http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums

select the one titled scripting. Lots of help there.

Peter Jefferson · April 29th, 2003, 12:47 PM

i think the "fanatacism" comes from the fact tha Vegas hasnt been over rated like Premiere...
obviously people have their faves, but when u consider the fact that most people using premiere have been doin so for a long time...

Most people never heard of vegas before version 2 came out... but it was always there...

Vegas vs Premiere... as a standalone SW only punch out, Premiere doesnt stand a chance.

in premiere it used to take about 3 days to compile my clips, trim them, arrange storyboards, effects etc etc

in Vegas i do it in less than a day...

in Vegas there is no need for multicam applications, additional title apps, and u can even set you DVD Chapter points by setting markers in your final render.
Import and voila, instant dvd with motion menu...

I think premiere is gettin on a bit... and doesnt really have anything new to offer as a standalone product...

Mind you, as Vegas' popularity grows, we'll prolly end up seeing the same kind of 3rd party plug and HW support that premiere relies on now...

converted?
Mate, im now the preacher.. LOL

April 24th, 2003, 08:05 PM	#23
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Like Dylan said, it just feels right. :) Hey, but...do people videotape funerals? How Macabre... __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 25th, 2003, 12:48 PM	#25
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	I agree with Richard, but I guess if you are a PC user, Vegas is more intuitive, since amny of the mouse clicks, keystrokes are that of the OS while Premiere has a lot of Mac influence. __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 25th, 2003, 02:25 PM	#26
Mark Richman Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sarasota Posts: 79	Bill Gates forever? I don't think so Yes computer mechanics are probably the main reason for frame drops. (My job is in computers) If you are worth your weight in salt and doing video with a $2-3000 camera, you need to update that clunker. I have met so many people that complain about their editing system. I ask "what are you using?" a Pentium 700 with a capture card, Adobe Premiere, 128 megs of memory and 3 80 gig drives. You can build a serious machine/computer with 2.5+ gig CPU, 1 gig fast memory, and a 400 gig raid 0 array, for less than $1500. Software is another deal. I am new to video but I just built this system and I have had frame drops in the first 2 minutes of one tape (out of the 15 I have captured from so far); I suspect the tape not the computer or the Vegas program. So upgrade now, prices are cheap. By the way, I am drooling over a Mac system with Final Cut Pro, but I can't afford it yet. The Dual G4's look sweet, but I just can't spend so much on dual processors that are that slow. Back to the subject - Adobe, Avid, or Vegas are great, support them with some good hardware. Frame drops are subject to many variables other than software. Vegas is so easy to learn and it is sooooo "intuitive", and it does feel "right" when you use it. Listen to me, I have been able to edit for a couple days now, and I like what I am seeing. Maybe I should post some film soon, so I can get some critiques, Mark __________________ Green Novice turning Yellow Pro Soon to be Ripe - So stand back!

April 25th, 2003, 07:04 PM	#28
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Bill gates is cool because and only because he has arranged things so that I can bring home bacon to feed the wife and the two kids. But alex consider this, with everyone jumping on the MS band wagon in the early turn of the century, there are actually a shortage of folks who are dedicated Mac support people. My cousin supprts the Macs in UCSF and thoguh I give him hard time, like "Your OS is not even an OS, it is an application that runs under UNIX." and " OS X is nothing new, we called it Linux," Of course these statements are not 100% true and is meant to be insulting and it really gets under his skin... I was going to flame on the Mac, but you know what? This is neither the forum nor the time to debate this useless debate sinc e I do not own stock in neither MS or Apple, but MS does help me feed my family. But I will say this, do not count out the Macs if you are lo0oking to enter the technical field professionally at this current economic state. It may be your way into companies who do a lot of production and is dedicated to Final Cut pro. BTW, a little tidbit, Pixar, a company owned by Steve Jobs uses PC's for everything, I know an animator...and also Billy Gates has an invested interest in Apple, so the lines are really blurry. __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 23rd, 2003, 02:32 PM	#16
Adi Head Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 642	i too am interested in a comparison between xpress dv and vegas, but in the dv editing realm, not for cutting negetives.

April 23rd, 2003, 03:19 PM	#17
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I began with Premeire, moved to Pinnacle, and finally found V3...now V4. I can't say enough about the flexibility, ease of workflow and customer support that comes with this product. For DV users, this is THE NLE to us, bar none. I don't like FCP or MAC platforms. In terms of productivity and capability(compositing, effects, transitions, and audio) nothing can touch Vegas 4 in the DV world..unless, of course, you got REAL deep pockets.

April 24th, 2003, 05:48 AM	#18
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	Both are excellent---Vegas is stronger in Real Time Previews, Compositing and of course, Audio. Avid is good if you want to transport your project to other Avid systems and allows you lots of control of the interface.

April 24th, 2003, 06:28 AM	#19
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	"stronger in real time reviews" Both systems give you real time previews. Both systems utilize processing power to "scale" the effectiveness of those previews. Vegas will drop frames as the going gets tough. Avid starts out by dropping a field... and keeps the frame rate constant. Different choices to achieve the same relative "real time" ability. Vegas gives rt previews out firewire, avid uses either the Matrox parahelia card or the "McFly" system. NOTE: The new MOJO box with Xpress Pro offers full res real time previews for up to five streams. See www.avid.com

April 24th, 2003, 06:34 AM	#20
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	I disagree---I have used both and Vegas is much more effective given the same variables. I found that there were several effects that Avid could not show real time previews for. One thing that has been left out is the huge price swing between the two NLE's----Vegas is much cheaper. Anyhow, whatever you decide enjoy it.

April 24th, 2003, 07:13 AM	#21
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I've not had a dropped frame in 18 months of using Vegas. I know people have problems, but, they also don't know much about the mechanics of their computers. I might add that I never capture with Vegas, it's too cumbersome. My capturing tool is Scenealyzer Live...which I love.

April 24th, 2003, 08:14 AM	#22
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	No question in both platforms, that optimum configuration is the key. I've never used Vegas, but I've sat behind a friend who was using it, and watched it drop frames as she added tracks. I suspect that the system was not optimized properly. Much the same can happen in Avid. It has so many different settings to customize speed and style of renderings, it can be confusing.

April 25th, 2003, 04:47 AM	#24
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I always take comments like "More intuitive... less intuitive" with a grain of salt. It all depends on where you're coming from, what you know, what you have to "un-learn". It's a very subjective comment.

April 25th, 2003, 02:30 PM	#27
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Whats the specs on your system that is dropping frames...? My system is only: AMD 1Ghz Athlon Some crappy motherboard 256MB PC133 SDRAM Western Digital 40GB & 13.6GB HDD's -- both only 5400rpm ATI 32MB AIW video card ...and it never dropped a frame, ever, when capturing with Vegas 3 & 4. (Yeah, I know, I need to upgrade, but I don't have a job, :D)

April 28th, 2003, 01:39 PM	#29
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	With vegas' new scripting features, there are some new scripts to handle EDL output for various systems. http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums select the one titled scripting. Lots of help there.

April 29th, 2003, 12:47 PM	#30
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	i think the "fanatacism" comes from the fact tha Vegas hasnt been over rated like Premiere... obviously people have their faves, but when u consider the fact that most people using premiere have been doin so for a long time... Most people never heard of vegas before version 2 came out... but it was always there... Vegas vs Premiere... as a standalone SW only punch out, Premiere doesnt stand a chance. in premiere it used to take about 3 days to compile my clips, trim them, arrange storyboards, effects etc etc in Vegas i do it in less than a day... in Vegas there is no need for multicam applications, additional title apps, and u can even set you DVD Chapter points by setting markers in your final render. Import and voila, instant dvd with motion menu... I think premiere is gettin on a bit... and doesnt really have anything new to offer as a standalone product... Mind you, as Vegas' popularity grows, we'll prolly end up seeing the same kind of 3rd party plug and HW support that premiere relies on now... converted? Mate, im now the preacher.. LOL