Changing capturing Vegas codec? at DVinfo.net

Plamen Petrov · February 21st, 2007, 03:54 AM

Hi everybody!
So, is it possible to change the codec used in Vegas for capture? I just wanna use other dv codec and that's why I usually use other program for capture in which I can choose the codec, but how to do that in Vegas?

Mike Kujbida · February 21st, 2007, 05:14 AM

Assuming you're talking about the capture of miniDV tape, there is no codec involved. It's a straight transfer of digital data from the tape to the hard drive.
Rendering is when codecs get involved and the MainConcept codec used by Vegas is considered to be one of the best.

Plamen Petrov · February 21st, 2007, 07:32 AM

Ok, look: for example, I use Magic Video Studio which includes capture option (like many other programs). What I can do is that I can make a choice of which codec to use for capture. I think in Sony Vegas sony dv codec is used by default, right? But I want to capture using DVCPPRO codec. I'm talking about capture of miniDV exaclty, but using DVCPRO codec by Canopus, for example, is giving me much better quality, really!!! So, can I adjust same in Vegas somehow?

Dan Crandall · February 21st, 2007, 10:48 AM

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it, as Mike explained, a Codec IS NOT used when transfering data from Mini-DV to a hard disk drive. It's a one-to-one data transfer (It is DV-AVI on the tape and it is identical DV-AVI when transfered to the disk). A Codec is used only when opening, playing or rendering from the NLE. (By the way, tests have proven that the Sony DV-AVI Codec is one of the very best Codecs available)
PS: Mike - Sony does not use the MainConcept DV-AVI Codec. The Codec used in Vegas was developed by Sonic Foundry and was transfered to Sony when they purchased the Media product line.

Jack Smith · February 21st, 2007, 10:53 PM

Dan, I believe Mike is correct in that the Main Concept codec is/was included with Vegas ver.5.
It can be selected when rendering.

Dan Crandall · February 22nd, 2007, 12:24 AM

Jack,

You're correct in that the Main Concept Codec is included with Vegas for MPEG2 rendering but Sony uses their own in-house codec for rendering to DV-AVI.

-Dan

Plamen Petrov · February 22nd, 2007, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Crandall

Sony uses their own in-house codec for rendering to DV-AVI.

-Dan

Yes, tha's what I mean. And that's why I want to change the way it uses it. In theory is different maybe, but I'm telling you, guys, that my miniDV footages captured with SoftLab-NSK DVCPRO codec look much clearer and better, even get filmic look. That's why I want to replace it somehow in Vegas. Also I tried with Sony DV Codec 2.23, it's ok at all but not too much, really!

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 22nd, 2007, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plamen Petrov

Yes, tha's what I mean. And that's why I want to change the way it uses it. In theory is different maybe, but I'm telling you, guys, that my miniDV footages captured with SoftLab-NSK DVCPRO codec look much clearer and better, even get filmic look. That's why I want to replace it somehow in Vegas. Also I tried with Sony DV Codec 2.23, it's ok at all but not too much, really!

This is a very confusing post. DV isn't filmic, and no DV camera I know of save for the DVX, has a "filmic" look without glass in front of it (filters).
The Sony DV codec is in the very top of codecs for DV, and has been strenously tested over the years and continues to be found at the top of the game.
A codec that does *anything* to your video is not a "good" codec. It's silly to suggest that capturing DV25 in a DVCPro codec will give a "filmic look" to the picture, all that's telling me is that the codec is softening the picture, killing the detail, and reducing the contrasts. That's not what a codec should do, under any circumstances.
If you *are* capturing with another codec, you're doing so with different hardware, and not using Sony Vegas software. When you shoot on DV tape and transfer it to a hard drive, it's a data transfer/dump. That's it.
The tape acts as a linear hard drive and transfers the data to a hard drive. No additional compression/decompression takes place, that's the job of a codec, and the codec is already in place at the camcorder. The codec is only called into use by the NLE when the media has to be recompressed to another format or file.
I hope this helps?

Plamen Petrov · February 22nd, 2007, 10:42 AM

Thank you, Douglas! Obviously I didnt say properly what I meant. SoftLab-NSK DVCPRO codec doesnt soften the picture or anything else about the look (like colour, contrast,etc.). What I meant is that it applies a kinda filmic MOTION look on the footage. I dont know how this happens but the result is too near the motion all we are looking for. Look, maybe something in my system is not perfectly ok, but when i use Vegas or Sony DV codec for capture, the result is lil artifacts and some video noise which is missing on the tape. Also after capture with SoftLab, the noise is missing. I am really thankfull to you for your explanation, but sometimes there is a difference between theory and practics. Im just telling about my own case.
P.S.: After capture with Vegas, in the properties of the DV AVI footage is written MC_DVD Codec. After capture with the codec I mentioned above, now its written SLDV or SL25. So the difference is not only in my eyes.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · February 22nd, 2007, 11:39 AM

Now I'm more confused than before. How is it that you're capturing with a codec other than the Sony codec when using Vegas?

P.S.: After capture with Vegas, in the properties of the DV AVI footage is written MC_DVD Codec.

If you're seeing *any* temporal changes, then you're converting the framerate of the capture at some point.
I'd really like to see the same footage captured in Vegas and captured with Softlab for purposes of testing/review. What you are saying simply makes no sense at all. Capture to Vegas is a data-transfer, nothing more. There is no way a DV compliant codec can change properties of a file on capture without it being a transcode (altering the file's original properties either spatially, temporally, bitrate, or all of the above).

Plamen Petrov · February 22nd, 2007, 02:53 PM

Ok, Douglas, I will show you same footage captured with Vegas and with other program for capture using SoftLab-NSK DVCPRO codec, I just have to find where to upload the clips.
Meanwhile, would you check some of your captured with Vegas dv avi footages, i.e. what is written in Properties -> Summary -> Advanced>Video>Video Compression?

Jack Smith · February 22nd, 2007, 11:40 PM

Thanks Dan, I understand what your commenting on, I was just backing up what Mike had said, I thought you were commenting about the render codec, as there is no capture codec.I know what you meant now.
I think he's talking about using a different( which one,I don't know) capture program.

John Cline · February 23rd, 2007, 03:02 AM

Spot is absolutely correct. When you transfer video from a DV camcorder, you are just transferring bits from the tape to the hard drive. There is NO codec involved in this process at any time.

After this file is copied to the hard drive, it normally has a FourCC code of "dvsd." This code tells Windows what type of video compression was used on the video contained in the AVI file. An AVI file is just a container like a glass jar, it can hold anything. The FourCC code is like the label on the jar. When Windows sees "dvsd" it looks through its database of installed codecs and sees which codec can decode that particular flavor of compressed video. If there is more than one codec which can handle it, Windows uses the first one it finds.

When Vegas sees "dvsd", it uses the Sony DV codec. (The Sony DV codec is the best looking standard DV codec there is by far.) When Premiere sees the same file, it uses the (inferior) Microsoft DV codec. I happen to have the Main Concept DV codec installed on my system, so when I get into VirtualDub, for example, it uses the Main Concept codec to decode the DV AVI file. The Sony DV codec is only available from within Vegas.

In your case, the SoftLab DV codec can handle FourCC codes of "SLDV" "SL25" "SL50" "dvsd" "dsvd" "dv25" and "dv50"

If the capture program you are using copies the data from the camera to the hard drive unaltered just like the Vegas capture utility, but writes the FourCC code in the header of the AVI file as "SLDV" then Vegas will use the SoftLab DV codec to decode the video since its internal DV codec is only programmed to recognize files with a FourCC code of "dvsd"

There are programs out there that will let you change the FourCC code of an AVI file, so you could take a DV AVI file with the code "dvsd" and change it to "SLDV" which would force Vegas to use the SoftLab codec to decode the video. When you render this file out of Vegas, just choose to render an AVI file and hit the "Custom" button and tell Vegas to use the SoftLab codec to compress the video.

John

February 21st, 2007, 03:54 AM	#1
Plamen Petrov Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sofia Bulgaria Posts: 147	Changing capturing Vegas codec? Hi everybody! So, is it possible to change the codec used in Vegas for capture? I just wanna use other dv codec and that's why I usually use other program for capture in which I can choose the codec, but how to do that in Vegas?

February 21st, 2007, 10:48 AM	#4
Dan Crandall New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13	I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it, as Mike explained, a Codec IS NOT used when transfering data from Mini-DV to a hard disk drive. It's a one-to-one data transfer (It is DV-AVI on the tape and it is identical DV-AVI when transfered to the disk). A Codec is used only when opening, playing or rendering from the NLE. (By the way, tests have proven that the Sony DV-AVI Codec is one of the very best Codecs available) PS: Mike - Sony does not use the MainConcept DV-AVI Codec. The Codec used in Vegas was developed by Sonic Foundry and was transfered to Sony when they purchased the Media product line. __________________ -Dan

February 22nd, 2007, 12:24 AM	#6
Dan Crandall New Boot Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13	Jack, You're correct in that the Main Concept Codec is included with Vegas for MPEG2 rendering but Sony uses their own in-house codec for rendering to DV-AVI. -Dan __________________ -Dan

February 22nd, 2007, 11:39 AM	#10
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Now I'm more confused than before. How is it that you're capturing with a codec other than the Sony codec when using Vegas? P.S.: After capture with Vegas, in the properties of the DV AVI footage is written MC_DVD Codec. If you're seeing any temporal changes, then you're converting the framerate of the capture at some point. I'd really like to see the same footage captured in Vegas and captured with Softlab for purposes of testing/review. What you are saying simply makes no sense at all. Capture to Vegas is a data-transfer, nothing more. There is no way a DV compliant codec can change properties of a file on capture without it being a transcode (altering the file's original properties either spatially, temporally, bitrate, or all of the above). __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

February 21st, 2007, 05:14 AM	#2
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Assuming you're talking about the capture of miniDV tape, there is no codec involved. It's a straight transfer of digital data from the tape to the hard drive. Rendering is when codecs get involved and the MainConcept codec used by Vegas is considered to be one of the best.

February 21st, 2007, 07:32 AM	#3
Plamen Petrov Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sofia Bulgaria Posts: 147	Ok, look: for example, I use Magic Video Studio which includes capture option (like many other programs). What I can do is that I can make a choice of which codec to use for capture. I think in Sony Vegas sony dv codec is used by default, right? But I want to capture using DVCPPRO codec. I'm talking about capture of miniDV exaclty, but using DVCPRO codec by Canopus, for example, is giving me much better quality, really!!! So, can I adjust same in Vegas somehow?

February 21st, 2007, 10:53 PM	#5
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Dan, I believe Mike is correct in that the Main Concept codec is/was included with Vegas ver.5. It can be selected when rendering.

February 22nd, 2007, 10:42 AM	#9
Plamen Petrov Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sofia Bulgaria Posts: 147	Thank you, Douglas! Obviously I didnt say properly what I meant. SoftLab-NSK DVCPRO codec doesnt soften the picture or anything else about the look (like colour, contrast,etc.). What I meant is that it applies a kinda filmic MOTION look on the footage. I dont know how this happens but the result is too near the motion all we are looking for. Look, maybe something in my system is not perfectly ok, but when i use Vegas or Sony DV codec for capture, the result is lil artifacts and some video noise which is missing on the tape. Also after capture with SoftLab, the noise is missing. I am really thankfull to you for your explanation, but sometimes there is a difference between theory and practics. Im just telling about my own case. P.S.: After capture with Vegas, in the properties of the DV AVI footage is written MC_DVD Codec. After capture with the codec I mentioned above, now its written SLDV or SL25. So the difference is not only in my eyes.

February 22nd, 2007, 02:53 PM	#11
Plamen Petrov Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sofia Bulgaria Posts: 147	Ok, Douglas, I will show you same footage captured with Vegas and with other program for capture using SoftLab-NSK DVCPRO codec, I just have to find where to upload the clips. Meanwhile, would you check some of your captured with Vegas dv avi footages, i.e. what is written in Properties -> Summary -> Advanced>Video>Video Compression?

February 22nd, 2007, 11:40 PM	#12
Jack Smith Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: ontario Posts: 445	Thanks Dan, I understand what your commenting on, I was just backing up what Mike had said, I thought you were commenting about the render codec, as there is no capture codec.I know what you meant now. I think he's talking about using a different( which one,I don't know) capture program.

February 23rd, 2007, 03:02 AM	#13
John Cline Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico USA Posts: 333	Spot is absolutely correct. When you transfer video from a DV camcorder, you are just transferring bits from the tape to the hard drive. There is NO codec involved in this process at any time. After this file is copied to the hard drive, it normally has a FourCC code of "dvsd." This code tells Windows what type of video compression was used on the video contained in the AVI file. An AVI file is just a container like a glass jar, it can hold anything. The FourCC code is like the label on the jar. When Windows sees "dvsd" it looks through its database of installed codecs and sees which codec can decode that particular flavor of compressed video. If there is more than one codec which can handle it, Windows uses the first one it finds. When Vegas sees "dvsd", it uses the Sony DV codec. (The Sony DV codec is the best looking standard DV codec there is by far.) When Premiere sees the same file, it uses the (inferior) Microsoft DV codec. I happen to have the Main Concept DV codec installed on my system, so when I get into VirtualDub, for example, it uses the Main Concept codec to decode the DV AVI file. The Sony DV codec is only available from within Vegas. In your case, the SoftLab DV codec can handle FourCC codes of "SLDV" "SL25" "SL50" "dvsd" "dsvd" "dv25" and "dv50" If the capture program you are using copies the data from the camera to the hard drive unaltered just like the Vegas capture utility, but writes the FourCC code in the header of the AVI file as "SLDV" then Vegas will use the SoftLab DV codec to decode the video since its internal DV codec is only programmed to recognize files with a FourCC code of "dvsd" There are programs out there that will let you change the FourCC code of an AVI file, so you could take a DV AVI file with the code "dvsd" and change it to "SLDV" which would force Vegas to use the SoftLab codec to decode the video. When you render this file out of Vegas, just choose to render an AVI file and hit the "Custom" button and tell Vegas to use the SoftLab codec to compress the video. John