Some questions about Sony Vegas 7

Mike Kujbida · January 16th, 2007, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

I feel really stupid but I cannot find the advanced capture button.

Someone correct if I'm wrong but I seem to recall reading that you can't do advanced capture with the HDV format.

Floris van Eck · January 16th, 2007, 07:26 PM

I am still not sure what is the best way to capture 63-minutes of footage without scenes. Is there a penalty if I have 20GB of .m2t footage and I am going to use that for editing? The reason why I use log and capture in Premiere Pro 2.0 is because I will then end up with around 20 smaller files instead of one gigantic 20GB file which (I suppose) hurts my system badly.

How can I know for sure if advance capture does not work with HDV footage? DSE ?! Thanks in advance.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 16th, 2007, 07:52 PM

As mentioned, disable scene detection.
MikeK is correct, there is no advanced capture for HDV.

Floris van Eck · January 17th, 2007, 06:10 AM

I have one final question regarding Vegas. How different is the Vegas workflow from that of other NLE editors? Also, when you get to learn the program... how does it influence your productivity? Can you work faster with Vegas then with other editors or is it more or less the same? The interface differences is something I believe I would just need to get used to. So how does Vegas compare when you look at advanced features?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 17th, 2007, 10:12 AM

Floris, your questions are all subjective, so bear in mind that these are opinions, not fact.
Vegas is faster than any editor you'll find out there, I believe. Part of that is my familiarity with Vegas, part of that is how fast I picked up Vegas after a few years of Premiere, Avid, and Ulead use. Part of that statement is rooted in the faster, more visible workflow that Vegas has.
It used to influence my creativity. Now it's just an extension of my thought process. "Perfect speed is being there." I know Vegas well enough to "be there."
The workflow isn't tremendously different than other NLE's, just that it's not exactly the same. Once you get past the concept of separate source and preview, it rolls pretty fast. Controlling events at event, track, project, or bin levels is pretty powerful and useful. Being able to save chains of FX is very useful. Any kind of media regardless of resolution or framerate, in most every codec is very useful.
It's a good compositor, not a great compositor. No NLE has the same compositing tools *built in* but for example, AE interfaces exceptionally nicely with Premiere. So AE is a better compositor, but it's not built into the Premiere application. It's also another interface to learn. So, YMMV.
The bottom line is that all the NLE's out there (OK, not all, there still is AIST and a few others) are pretty darn good. It's mostly a selection of which one interfaces best with you after you've worked with all of them a bit. Once you get familiar with Vegas, you may find yourself struggling with it. If you are, it's probably not the NLE for you if you've got a different NLE that "speaks" to you.

Bill Mecca · January 17th, 2007, 11:22 AM

been following this thread since it has some great info.

I've been using Avid for years,(have also used Ulead) but have been intrigued by the many fervent fans of Vegas.

I do have a couple questions.

From what I can see here, Vegas sees editing as a "subtractive process" rather than "additive?" My workflow in Avid and Ulead was to open a clip, set in and out points and then add to the timeline. I downloaded the trial version of Vegas Movie Studio, is there no way to set in and out points on the clip? no 3 or 4 point editing? or do I just need to "think differently"

Just color me curious ;-)

Floris van Eck · January 17th, 2007, 12:18 PM

Thanks Douglas! It's just that if you look at Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere or Avid Express they all look pretty much the same. I have been working with Final Cut and switched to Adobe Premiere lately but that just did not turn out as well as I expected. Although they look the same, the stability of Adobe Premiere has not been very good for me so that's why I am now looking at Sony Vegas as an option. The other option is going back to Mac. I have the trial version installed but it it just like someone slaps you in the face. Its a bit harder to get started with because I think old style (i.e. source & project monitor). Vegas also looks a bit dirtier (i.e. less finished). But on the other hand, it feels and looks rock solid so that's why I am interested. Since I switched to PC I started with what I thought were hardware problems that turned out to be Panda Antivirus that was causing havoc. When that was finally solved and I finally got start working with Premiere (in combination with Cineform) it hangs on many ocassions so again I am not productive. So the only thing I want now is a solid application so I can focus on training myself and developing my skills without being plagued by crashes. If I am not editing, my PC runs very smoothly and no other programs crash. Vegas is also very affordable and I think it will get better and better each version.

As it looks now, it will either be Vegas or back to Final Cut Pro on a Mac. I chose for a PC because it was cheaper but as long as I cannot be productive, it is not cheaper at all. I will have to see.

Glenn Chan · January 17th, 2007, 12:41 PM

You can set in points and out points in the trimmer.

Or you can throw clips into the timeline, and trim there by dragging on the right and left edges of clips. The numpad keys I believe work like Avid.

The crtl and alt modifiers let you get into slip and roll edits (not sure what the Avid terminology is).
Check out the sticky at the top of the vegas forum: the list of shortcuts is pretty useful!

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 17th, 2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floris van Eck

Thanks Douglas! It's just that if you look at Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere or Avid Express they all look pretty much the same.

There is a reason for that...
Avid invented the interface.
Premiere (previous to Adobe acquiring it) copied the Avid interface. So did virtually everyone else.
The people that initially created Premiere created Final Cut.

Vegas came along and began as an audio app in a burgeoning field of how audio apps would look/act/feel. Sound Forge was one of the very first DAW tools out there, and many of the terms that we use today are the result of SF. Vegas grew out of Sound Forge. The NLE paradigm grew from the audio paradigm, and for some of us, it just makes more sense. For others, it makes no sense. I'll go so far as to say that creative folks seem to find Vegas easier to adopt than math-minded/engineering folks.
The primary benefit in the early days and still today, is found in Vegas' stability. It just works. Rarely crashes, works with virtually anything you throw at it. It's the proverbial tank in the industry.
It's not the prettiest NLE out there, I think in the low-cost NLE's that Avid Liquid probably wins that battle. But it is the most stable and system-friendly in that it will run on Pentium II, old systems, but takes advantage of multi-core systems as well.
there's more, but no point in preaching to the choir. ;-)
Welcome to Vegas, Floris!

Bill Ravens · January 17th, 2007, 12:58 PM

Floris...

I had the same issues as you a few years ago, with Premiere. Sounds like nothing's changed with Premiere...it's still balky and unreliable....totally unacceptable for me. To make matters worse, Adobe has NO NO NO suitable customer support. Buy their product, buy their customer support. Sony Media/Vegas has one of the best customer support organizations I've found. Vegas may not have all of premiere's bells and whistles, but, at least IT WORKS!

Floris van Eck · January 17th, 2007, 01:10 PM

Bill, that is exactly what I would like to hear. First I thought Premiere looked nice but nice is nothing as it does not work and is not reliable. So what I want is a rock-solid application, a tank to say it in Douglas words.

Bill Mecca · January 17th, 2007, 01:12 PM

Thanks Glen, I will check that out.

Bill Ravens · January 17th, 2007, 01:20 PM

For what it's worth...

a couple of years ago I had the experience of working on a movie trailer with an ex-editor from The Sopranos. She won an emmy for the work she did on that series and used Avid, exclusively. At first, she was quite dubious of what I could do with vegas 5. In fact, she was specifically concerned that Vegas wouldn't do 3 or 4 point editting. In fact, it can, in the trimmer as Glenn said...they just don't call it 4 point editting. She was also concerned about doing l and J edits...which vegas doesn't automate, but they can be manually done. There are plugins available to automate the L, J cut process. When we started working together, her reticence evaporated and we got a nice product out in short order. Vegas stood up to her Avid expectations without hesitancy.

John Vincent · January 17th, 2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauritius Seeger

what is 24F? i've heard of i and p, just wondering what f could possibly mean.

It's the Canon HL-1's approximation of progressive frame capture.

Normal film cameras and most newer high end video cameras use progressive (that is to say, one frame shot or captured at a time in rapid succession) frame capture (ie - "24fps").

Canon's use of this approximation has brought much angst from would-be buyers and users as it isn't quite 24p. Some like the look, others don't. Either, if it's used, you lose resolution.

john
evilgeniusentertainment.com

Floris van Eck · January 17th, 2007, 06:39 PM

Douglas, I have just placed a purchase for the Sony Vegas Training DVDs Volume 1-7 on the Vasst site. My initial experience with Vegas are favorable and when I see the dedication in these forums I think this is the right way to go. So I guess I will be looking at you in a week or two!

On a side-note: are you capturing .m2t clips with Vegas or are you using another format? I would like to find out which is the best format to use. I also read something about conversion within Vegas to other formats (YUV)?

January 16th, 2007, 07:52 PM	#18
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	As mentioned, disable scene detection. MikeK is correct, there is no advanced capture for HDV. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 17th, 2007, 10:12 AM	#20
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Floris, your questions are all subjective, so bear in mind that these are opinions, not fact. Vegas is faster than any editor you'll find out there, I believe. Part of that is my familiarity with Vegas, part of that is how fast I picked up Vegas after a few years of Premiere, Avid, and Ulead use. Part of that statement is rooted in the faster, more visible workflow that Vegas has. It used to influence my creativity. Now it's just an extension of my thought process. "Perfect speed is being there." I know Vegas well enough to "be there." The workflow isn't tremendously different than other NLE's, just that it's not exactly the same. Once you get past the concept of separate source and preview, it rolls pretty fast. Controlling events at event, track, project, or bin levels is pretty powerful and useful. Being able to save chains of FX is very useful. Any kind of media regardless of resolution or framerate, in most every codec is very useful. It's a good compositor, not a great compositor. No NLE has the same compositing tools built in but for example, AE interfaces exceptionally nicely with Premiere. So AE is a better compositor, but it's not built into the Premiere application. It's also another interface to learn. So, YMMV. The bottom line is that all the NLE's out there (OK, not all, there still is AIST and a few others) are pretty darn good. It's mostly a selection of which one interfaces best with you after you've worked with all of them a bit. Once you get familiar with Vegas, you may find yourself struggling with it. If you are, it's probably not the NLE for you if you've got a different NLE that "speaks" to you. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 17th, 2007, 11:22 AM	#21
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	been following this thread since it has some great info. I've been using Avid for years,(have also used Ulead) but have been intrigued by the many fervent fans of Vegas. I do have a couple questions. From what I can see here, Vegas sees editing as a "subtractive process" rather than "additive?" My workflow in Avid and Ulead was to open a clip, set in and out points and then add to the timeline. I downloaded the trial version of Vegas Movie Studio, is there no way to set in and out points on the clip? no 3 or 4 point editing? or do I just need to "think differently" Just color me curious ;-) __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

January 17th, 2007, 01:12 PM	#27
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	Thanks Glen, I will check that out. __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

January 16th, 2007, 07:26 PM	#17
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I am still not sure what is the best way to capture 63-minutes of footage without scenes. Is there a penalty if I have 20GB of .m2t footage and I am going to use that for editing? The reason why I use log and capture in Premiere Pro 2.0 is because I will then end up with around 20 smaller files instead of one gigantic 20GB file which (I suppose) hurts my system badly. How can I know for sure if advance capture does not work with HDV footage? DSE ?! Thanks in advance.

January 17th, 2007, 06:10 AM	#19
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I have one final question regarding Vegas. How different is the Vegas workflow from that of other NLE editors? Also, when you get to learn the program... how does it influence your productivity? Can you work faster with Vegas then with other editors or is it more or less the same? The interface differences is something I believe I would just need to get used to. So how does Vegas compare when you look at advanced features?

January 17th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#22
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Thanks Douglas! It's just that if you look at Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere or Avid Express they all look pretty much the same. I have been working with Final Cut and switched to Adobe Premiere lately but that just did not turn out as well as I expected. Although they look the same, the stability of Adobe Premiere has not been very good for me so that's why I am now looking at Sony Vegas as an option. The other option is going back to Mac. I have the trial version installed but it it just like someone slaps you in the face. Its a bit harder to get started with because I think old style (i.e. source & project monitor). Vegas also looks a bit dirtier (i.e. less finished). But on the other hand, it feels and looks rock solid so that's why I am interested. Since I switched to PC I started with what I thought were hardware problems that turned out to be Panda Antivirus that was causing havoc. When that was finally solved and I finally got start working with Premiere (in combination with Cineform) it hangs on many ocassions so again I am not productive. So the only thing I want now is a solid application so I can focus on training myself and developing my skills without being plagued by crashes. If I am not editing, my PC runs very smoothly and no other programs crash. Vegas is also very affordable and I think it will get better and better each version. As it looks now, it will either be Vegas or back to Final Cut Pro on a Mac. I chose for a PC because it was cheaper but as long as I cannot be productive, it is not cheaper at all. I will have to see.

January 17th, 2007, 12:41 PM	#23
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	You can set in points and out points in the trimmer. Or you can throw clips into the timeline, and trim there by dragging on the right and left edges of clips. The numpad keys I believe work like Avid. The crtl and alt modifiers let you get into slip and roll edits (not sure what the Avid terminology is). Check out the sticky at the top of the vegas forum: the list of shortcuts is pretty useful!

January 17th, 2007, 12:58 PM	#25
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	Floris... I had the same issues as you a few years ago, with Premiere. Sounds like nothing's changed with Premiere...it's still balky and unreliable....totally unacceptable for me. To make matters worse, Adobe has NO NO NO suitable customer support. Buy their product, buy their customer support. Sony Media/Vegas has one of the best customer support organizations I've found. Vegas may not have all of premiere's bells and whistles, but, at least IT WORKS!

January 17th, 2007, 01:10 PM	#26
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Bill, that is exactly what I would like to hear. First I thought Premiere looked nice but nice is nothing as it does not work and is not reliable. So what I want is a rock-solid application, a tank to say it in Douglas words.

January 17th, 2007, 01:20 PM	#28
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	For what it's worth... a couple of years ago I had the experience of working on a movie trailer with an ex-editor from The Sopranos. She won an emmy for the work she did on that series and used Avid, exclusively. At first, she was quite dubious of what I could do with vegas 5. In fact, she was specifically concerned that Vegas wouldn't do 3 or 4 point editting. In fact, it can, in the trimmer as Glenn said...they just don't call it 4 point editting. She was also concerned about doing l and J edits...which vegas doesn't automate, but they can be manually done. There are plugins available to automate the L, J cut process. When we started working together, her reticence evaporated and we got a nice product out in short order. Vegas stood up to her Avid expectations without hesitancy.

January 17th, 2007, 06:39 PM	#30
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	Douglas, I have just placed a purchase for the Sony Vegas Training DVDs Volume 1-7 on the Vasst site. My initial experience with Vegas are favorable and when I see the dedication in these forums I think this is the right way to go. So I guess I will be looking at you in a week or two! On a side-note: are you capturing .m2t clips with Vegas or are you using another format? I would like to find out which is the best format to use. I also read something about conversion within Vegas to other formats (YUV)?