Realtime output to Firewire with dissolve? at DVinfo.net

Prech Marton · January 7th, 2007, 08:09 AM

Hi. I have a not so powerful PC now:
3200+ Barton
512DDR
7200rpm hard drivers
camcorder with DV IN

What would be the next config to edit DV video with simple dissolve between two clips, and one title track, REALTIME on firewire port?
Now it is only 5-10 fps.
A core2duo has enough power to achieve this?
I know edius can to this (even on my config), but i want to STAY in Vegas ;)

thx,
Marton

Edward Troxel · January 7th, 2007, 03:58 PM

What preview setting are you using? My 3.4 GHz laptop does this now. My preview settings are on Preview (Auto).

Prech Marton · January 8th, 2007, 01:06 AM

I'm in Europe, so i use PAL DV settings. 720x576i, 50field/sec, lower field.
Preview in Auto setting is about 12fps, and Preview in FULL
setting is about 9fps on my camcorder LCD.

So you say a 3.4ghz real P4 (not celeron) processor can do this job?
25/30 fps with dissolve and a title on firewire port? If yes, the core2duo
has also enough power.

Edward Troxel · January 8th, 2007, 08:47 AM

Yes, for simple crossfades I typically remain at 29.97. Disk access can affect this somewhat as well. Adding effects will also affect this. And, yes, it is a P4 (not Celeron).

Jason Robinson · January 8th, 2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prech Marton

I'm in Europe, so i use PAL DV settings. 720x576i, 50field/sec, lower field.
Preview in Auto setting is about 12fps, and Preview in FULL
setting is about 9fps on my camcorder LCD.

So you say a 3.4ghz real P4 (not celeron) processor can do this job?
25/30 fps with dissolve and a title on firewire port? If yes, the core2duo
has also enough power.

That is part of your problem. Change you preview setting to "preview" instead of full. Or buy new hardware. Unfortunately that seems to be the only options.

jason

Prech Marton · January 8th, 2007, 02:26 PM

Do you mean in project properties under full resolution rendering quality?
When i set it to "preview", the output on cam. lcd is also jumpy, 12-14fps.
There is no "full" setting, as you say.
"Full" is above the preview window, but its call "preview(full)" and "preview(auto)". i dont know exactly what do you say. Both of them produce 10-12fps.

"Or buy new hardware"
Yes, that's why i started this topic.

Glenn Chan · January 8th, 2007, 05:22 PM

If you're using one of the newer versions of Vegas with scopes, make sure they aren't doing real-time update.

Check that opacity is 100% on the event and on the tracks.

Check that there aren't any FX being applied, at the event, track, or video preview FX level.

I believe the 3200+ barton should be able to do RT cross dissolve.

2- A core2 duo should have no problem with this... it will be a *lot* faster than what you have. At least four times faster.

Prech Marton · January 9th, 2007, 01:44 AM

Glenn thanx.

I use Vegas4, no scopes, no FX, and opacity is at 100%.
(if u say, vegas4 is old, i have tested vegas5 and 6 trial also..)
Every settings is OK, i'm sure, i use vegas for long time..

"I believe the 3200+ barton should be able to do RT cross dissolve."
Realtime, realtime, but not 25 fps on I-link.
Of course on pc monitor there is no problem, its 25fps.

Jarrod Whaley · January 10th, 2007, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prech Marton

Do you mean in project properties under full resolution rendering quality?
When i set it to "preview", the output on cam. lcd is also jumpy, 12-14fps.
There is no "full" setting, as you say.
"Full" is above the preview window, but its call "preview(full)" and "preview(auto)". i dont know exactly what do you say. Both of them produce 10-12fps.

He's talking about the setting above the preview window, not the project preferences setting. Preview (auto) usually (depending on how many effects or other processor-draining things are applied to the video) doesn't look so bad that you can't get a sense of whether something works or not, and will usually give you a decent playback rate even on a slow computer.

Prech Marton · January 10th, 2007, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

He's talking about the setting above the preview window, not the project preferences setting.

I have tested both mode.

In #3 i wrote:

"Preview in Auto setting is about 12fps, and Preview in FULL
setting is about 9fps on my camcorder LCD."

And again: there is noone fx, opacity change, speed change, etc. just simple dv avi files with dissolve.

Jarrod Whaley · January 10th, 2007, 02:48 AM

Just make sure you don't have many other programs running in the background. Other than that, it sounds like there's not much more you can do short of upgrading your hardware.

Prech Marton · January 10th, 2007, 03:06 AM

No, with clear win install the situatios is the same.

[QUOTE=it sounds like there's not much more you can do short of upgrading your hardware.[/QUOTE]

yes, i need upgrade, i know. i created this topic for this. what config can do my need?

Jarrod Whaley · January 10th, 2007, 03:31 AM

All I can say is that I'm still running a 2.4Ghz Pentium with 512MB RAM (I had more RAM until recently when I blew a chip), and I have no problem playing back most moderately "effected" video with crossfades, etc. at the preview(auto) setting at real or near-real frame rates.

I'd say you should just upgrade as much as your wallet will allow. Even a small improvement will help with you're trying to get, I'd bet.

Prech Marton · January 10th, 2007, 03:55 AM

That's interesting for me, because i think
Barton 3200+ and P4 2.4ghz is about equal.
Are you sure that its realtime 29fps on FIREWIRE output? Not on monitor. On TV!

I dont think its a RAM issue. I can buy 2GB ram, and still have 12fps, and i think a core2duo config can do 25 fps with only 256 ram. (if i have such a system, i will test it)

Graham Bernard · January 11th, 2007, 03:05 AM

Hi Prech!

Just some more feedback on my ASUS P4 + 3.2 + 2gb RAM.

This through firewire to external pro-monitor widescreen display: PAL Widescreen - 1sec Crossfade (Clip A and Clip B have Pancrop adjustments too!), with Preview Window sized at 401x221 display:

25 fps - FULL; Simulate Device Aspect ratio; Scale Video to fit Preview Window; Display frames in video preview window during playback=OFF

23>24 fps - AUTO; Simulate Device Aspect ratio; Scale Video to fit Preview Window; Display frames in video preview window during playback=OFF

Now, with any Previewing, I've found FPS rises the more LOOPS/passes I do. So, sometimes a 3pass CROSSFADE pass gets to 25fps where a SINGLE pass wont.

There are far too many variables for me to consider to adjust Preview, Preview window size, Show Frames or not, for me to worry about. If I want to "see" a crossfade and how it develops then 1>3 passes normally gets me to 25fps . .and then I move on.

As has been said, Prech, it is to reduce ANY process that is eating away at CPU power.

And so, it is on this basis that I have purposefully designed WORK Layouts that reflect my needs - at that time!

For example I do have layouts that are "missing" anything that will eat CPU - NO Scopes which are updating; A small or smaller previewing screen and in fact my "No1" or first Layout is - including the TOOLBAR and the STATUS bar:

* Trimmer

* Video Preview

* Media Manager

* Audio & Vid Bus

* Show Envelopes

* Active take

* Waveforms

* Event Buttons

* Event Fades

This is a really "stripped" down Layout. The point I'm making here is that I have designed my layouts around getting Vegas responsive in the way I want and work. I accept what Vegas can and can't do, and adjust accordingly.

Now sure, IF you upgrade, it will swallow up your CPU requirements. BUT you may very well come to a point that you TOO may need to adjust-back a Layout that even then will be sticking at a FPS that you aren't satisfied with.

Use the multiple Layout options to have the layout that will remove - for that session - unwanted and CPU intensive stuff - yeah?

After all, they are only a key stroke away? You can aways go back to the other layout quickly! - PLUS here is your chance to experiment with various CPU intensive layouts and quantify just what you are getting - or not.

Hope this helps - g

January 7th, 2007, 08:09 AM	#1
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	Realtime output to Firewire with dissolve? Hi. I have a not so powerful PC now: 3200+ Barton 512DDR 7200rpm hard drivers camcorder with DV IN What would be the next config to edit DV video with simple dissolve between two clips, and one title track, REALTIME on firewire port? Now it is only 5-10 fps. A core2duo has enough power to achieve this? I know edius can to this (even on my config), but i want to STAY in Vegas ;) thx, Marton __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

January 7th, 2007, 03:58 PM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	What preview setting are you using? My 3.4 GHz laptop does this now. My preview settings are on Preview (Auto). __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

January 8th, 2007, 08:47 AM	#4
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Yes, for simple crossfades I typically remain at 29.97. Disk access can affect this somewhat as well. Adding effects will also affect this. And, yes, it is a P4 (not Celeron). __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

January 8th, 2007, 02:26 PM	#6
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	Do you mean in project properties under full resolution rendering quality? When i set it to "preview", the output on cam. lcd is also jumpy, 12-14fps. There is no "full" setting, as you say. "Full" is above the preview window, but its call "preview(full)" and "preview(auto)". i dont know exactly what do you say. Both of them produce 10-12fps. "Or buy new hardware" Yes, that's why i started this topic. __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

January 9th, 2007, 01:44 AM	#8
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	Glenn thanx. I use Vegas4, no scopes, no FX, and opacity is at 100%. (if u say, vegas4 is old, i have tested vegas5 and 6 trial also..) Every settings is OK, i'm sure, i use vegas for long time.. "I believe the 3200+ barton should be able to do RT cross dissolve." Realtime, realtime, but not 25 fps on I-link. Of course on pc monitor there is no problem, its 25fps. __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

January 8th, 2007, 01:06 AM	#3
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	I'm in Europe, so i use PAL DV settings. 720x576i, 50field/sec, lower field. Preview in Auto setting is about 12fps, and Preview in FULL setting is about 9fps on my camcorder LCD. So you say a 3.4ghz real P4 (not celeron) processor can do this job? 25/30 fps with dissolve and a title on firewire port? If yes, the core2duo has also enough power. __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

January 8th, 2007, 05:22 PM	#7
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	If you're using one of the newer versions of Vegas with scopes, make sure they aren't doing real-time update. Check that opacity is 100% on the event and on the tracks. Check that there aren't any FX being applied, at the event, track, or video preview FX level. I believe the 3200+ barton should be able to do RT cross dissolve. 2- A core2 duo should have no problem with this... it will be a lot faster than what you have. At least four times faster.

January 10th, 2007, 02:48 AM	#11
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	Just make sure you don't have many other programs running in the background. Other than that, it sounds like there's not much more you can do short of upgrading your hardware. __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

January 10th, 2007, 03:06 AM	#12
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	No, with clear win install the situatios is the same. [QUOTE=it sounds like there's not much more you can do short of upgrading your hardware.[/QUOTE] yes, i need upgrade, i know. i created this topic for this. what config can do my need? __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

January 10th, 2007, 03:31 AM	#13
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	All I can say is that I'm still running a 2.4Ghz Pentium with 512MB RAM (I had more RAM until recently when I blew a chip), and I have no problem playing back most moderately "effected" video with crossfades, etc. at the preview(auto) setting at real or near-real frame rates. I'd say you should just upgrade as much as your wallet will allow. Even a small improvement will help with you're trying to get, I'd bet. __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

January 10th, 2007, 03:55 AM	#14
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	That's interesting for me, because i think Barton 3200+ and P4 2.4ghz is about equal. Are you sure that its realtime 29fps on FIREWIRE output? Not on monitor. On TV! I dont think its a RAM issue. I can buy 2GB ram, and still have 12fps, and i think a core2duo config can do 25 fps with only 256 ram. (if i have such a system, i will test it) __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

January 11th, 2007, 03:05 AM	#15
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Hi Prech! Just some more feedback on my ASUS P4 + 3.2 + 2gb RAM. This through firewire to external pro-monitor widescreen display: PAL Widescreen - 1sec Crossfade (Clip A and Clip B have Pancrop adjustments too!), with Preview Window sized at 401x221 display: 25 fps - FULL; Simulate Device Aspect ratio; Scale Video to fit Preview Window; Display frames in video preview window during playback=OFF 23>24 fps - AUTO; Simulate Device Aspect ratio; Scale Video to fit Preview Window; Display frames in video preview window during playback=OFF Now, with any Previewing, I've found FPS rises the more LOOPS/passes I do. So, sometimes a 3pass CROSSFADE pass gets to 25fps where a SINGLE pass wont. There are far too many variables for me to consider to adjust Preview, Preview window size, Show Frames or not, for me to worry about. If I want to "see" a crossfade and how it develops then 1>3 passes normally gets me to 25fps . .and then I move on. As has been said, Prech, it is to reduce ANY process that is eating away at CPU power. And so, it is on this basis that I have purposefully designed WORK Layouts that reflect my needs - at that time! For example I do have layouts that are "missing" anything that will eat CPU - NO Scopes which are updating; A small or smaller previewing screen and in fact my "No1" or first Layout is - including the TOOLBAR and the STATUS bar: * Trimmer * Video Preview * Media Manager * Audio & Vid Bus * Show Envelopes * Active take * Waveforms * Event Buttons * Event Fades This is a really "stripped" down Layout. The point I'm making here is that I have designed my layouts around getting Vegas responsive in the way I want and work. I accept what Vegas can and can't do, and adjust accordingly. Now sure, IF you upgrade, it will swallow up your CPU requirements. BUT you may very well come to a point that you TOO may need to adjust-back a Layout that even then will be sticking at a FPS that you aren't satisfied with. Use the multiple Layout options to have the layout that will remove - for that session - unwanted and CPU intensive stuff - yeah? After all, they are only a key stroke away? You can aways go back to the other layout quickly! - PLUS here is your chance to experiment with various CPU intensive layouts and quantify just what you are getting - or not. Hope this helps - g