Why does my text/graphic look so poor? at DVinfo.net

Alastair Brown · January 1st, 2007, 04:47 AM

I've done a lower third with my logo (shape and text) on the RHS.

Once rendered, it looks annoyingly poor and not sharp/crisp in any way.

I thought I had done everything I should have i.e.

reduce interlace flicker
Use media generator for the text rather than on the graphic
Imported the graphic as a high dpi .png image and used the track crop/resize to bring it down to the lower third area.

It's rendered as avi then converted to DVD Architect PAL Widescreen. All project properties set to match.

Any help/advice gratefully received.

Happy New Year!

Vincent Croce · January 1st, 2007, 10:24 AM

In the event pan/crop of the media generator, raise the frame size to at least double the project. For me, my project is set at 720x480 for dv, so I use 1440x960.

Alastair Brown · January 1st, 2007, 12:37 PM

Thanks Vince. I'm a little hazy about how to do this. I have the Event Pan/Crop window open but dont see any mention of resolution. Do I do this by altering the width height settings i.e. 720 x 576 becomes 1440 x 960?

Vincent Croce · January 1st, 2007, 12:49 PM

Since you're using text from the media generator, increase the frame size. That will sharpen your text. As far as the hi res png file, no idea why that isn't rendering sharply. I'm assuming the rendered avi as well as the final mpg out of DVDA are both looking poorly.

Brian Luce · January 1st, 2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Croce

In the event pan/crop, raise the resolution to at least double the project. For me, my project is set at 720x480 for dv, so I use 1440x960. Keeps any text you might add from the media gens nice and crisp, too.

how do you access the rez setting in pan and crop?

Vincent Croce · January 1st, 2007, 01:22 PM

Oops. Sorry Brian, I misstated myself (and corrected that post). I was referring to the frame size in the media gen for text, a little tip from DSE and others that really improves the quality of the text in Vegas. It can't be done with regular footage. I'm assuming it works because Vegas must use vector generated text. Alastair, you should raise the frame size of the text to 1440x1152, or some figures using the same aspect ratio.

Jeff Harper · January 1st, 2007, 02:37 PM

Yes, I too would like to know how to adjust resolution for text...

Mike Kujbida · January 1st, 2007, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Yes, I too would like to know how to adjust resolution for text...

When you're creating text, go to the Frame Size boxes (upper left corner of the Generated Media box) and double the default size from 720x480 to 1440x960 (NTSC) or from 720x576 to 1440x1152 (PAL).
Nothing will seem to change (i.e. text won't get any larger) but the edges will be cleaner and you'll be able to do a greater zoom in on it if desired.

Alastair Brown · January 1st, 2007, 03:57 PM

I was STILL scratching my head looking in the actual Pan Crop section.

As Vinces corrected himself, look at the top of the MEDIA GENERATOR pop-up and the frame size is there. About to try it now.

Alastair Brown · January 1st, 2007, 04:20 PM

Wohoo.......It Works!

It's an improvement. Will render it out, burn a disc and check it on a big screen tomorrow.

Whats the reasoning behind why this happens. Would increasing the frame size again increase the sharpness even further?

Bob Thieda · January 1st, 2007, 04:46 PM

Excellent tip....just tried it! Thanks for that.

Bob T.

Jeff Harper · January 1st, 2007, 06:41 PM

Jeff Harper

Vincent Croce · January 2nd, 2007, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastair Brown

Wohoo.......It Works!

Whats the reasoning behind why this happens. Would increasing the frame size again increase the sharpness even further?

Like I said previously, I believe Vegas uses vector based graphics for the text, which would allow increases in size without pixelation (just like using Illustrator vs. Photoshop for increasing size). I would guess you could make it even larger and get even sharper text, but there would be a point you wouldn't notice the difference, depending upon how much zooming in on it you're doing...

Alastair Brown · January 3rd, 2007, 12:06 AM

Cheers Vince!

Yes, I think it boils down to the resolution 720 x 576 frame gives you. It's like Digital Cameras. A 10Mp digital camera will let you zoom in a great deal without loosing detail whereas a 1 mp will start looking jagged and blocky pretty quick. Increasing the frame size gives you more pixels to zoom in on.

I'm surprised this question doesn't crop up more often. Seems a pretty easy BIG mistake to be able to make in Vegas.

Once again, a really big thank you!

Vincent Croce · January 3rd, 2007, 05:59 AM

You're welcome, Alastair, but it's actually a tip passed to me by Douglas Spotted Eagle just a short time ago, so any thanks go to him.
As to your analogy to megapixels in dig cameras, vector graphics is a bit different. A program like Adobe Illustrator uses mathematical vectors to fill in pixels when you increase the size of objects, whereas an app like Photoshop just zooms in on the same amount of pixels, resulting in the jagged edges we all know and love. Which is why using a vector based app to generate graphics you intend to resize for print or import into After Effects, etc. is always your best bet.

January 1st, 2007, 04:47 AM	#1
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Why does my text/graphic look so poor? I've done a lower third with my logo (shape and text) on the RHS. Once rendered, it looks annoyingly poor and not sharp/crisp in any way. I thought I had done everything I should have i.e. reduce interlace flicker Use media generator for the text rather than on the graphic Imported the graphic as a high dpi .png image and used the track crop/resize to bring it down to the lower third area. It's rendered as avi then converted to DVD Architect PAL Widescreen. All project properties set to match. Any help/advice gratefully received. Happy New Year!

January 1st, 2007, 10:24 AM	#2
Vincent Croce Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 263	In the event pan/crop of the media generator, raise the frame size to at least double the project. For me, my project is set at 720x480 for dv, so I use 1440x960. __________________ Vin First Take Studios Last edited by Vincent Croce; January 1st, 2007 at 01:23 PM.

January 1st, 2007, 12:49 PM	#4
Vincent Croce Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 263	Since you're using text from the media generator, increase the frame size. That will sharpen your text. As far as the hi res png file, no idea why that isn't rendering sharply. I'm assuming the rendered avi as well as the final mpg out of DVDA are both looking poorly. __________________ Vin First Take Studios

January 1st, 2007, 01:22 PM	#6
Vincent Croce Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 263	Oops. Sorry Brian, I misstated myself (and corrected that post). I was referring to the frame size in the media gen for text, a little tip from DSE and others that really improves the quality of the text in Vegas. It can't be done with regular footage. I'm assuming it works because Vegas must use vector generated text. Alastair, you should raise the frame size of the text to 1440x1152, or some figures using the same aspect ratio. __________________ Vin First Take Studios

January 1st, 2007, 02:37 PM	#7
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Rez Yes, I too would like to know how to adjust resolution for text...

January 1st, 2007, 12:37 PM	#3
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Thanks Vince. I'm a little hazy about how to do this. I have the Event Pan/Crop window open but dont see any mention of resolution. Do I do this by altering the width height settings i.e. 720 x 576 becomes 1440 x 960?

January 1st, 2007, 03:57 PM	#9
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	I was STILL scratching my head looking in the actual Pan Crop section. As Vinces corrected himself, look at the top of the MEDIA GENERATOR pop-up and the frame size is there. About to try it now.

January 1st, 2007, 04:20 PM	#10
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Wohoo.......It Works! It's an improvement. Will render it out, burn a disc and check it on a big screen tomorrow. Whats the reasoning behind why this happens. Would increasing the frame size again increase the sharpness even further?

January 1st, 2007, 04:46 PM	#11
Bob Thieda Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Carol Stream, IL Posts: 541	Excellent tip....just tried it! Thanks for that. Bob T.

January 1st, 2007, 06:41 PM	#12
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Yes, thanks! Jeff Harper

January 3rd, 2007, 12:06 AM	#14
Alastair Brown Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Glasgow/Scotland Posts: 626	Cheers Vince! Yes, I think it boils down to the resolution 720 x 576 frame gives you. It's like Digital Cameras. A 10Mp digital camera will let you zoom in a great deal without loosing detail whereas a 1 mp will start looking jagged and blocky pretty quick. Increasing the frame size gives you more pixels to zoom in on. I'm surprised this question doesn't crop up more often. Seems a pretty easy BIG mistake to be able to make in Vegas. Once again, a really big thank you!

January 3rd, 2007, 05:59 AM	#15
Vincent Croce Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 263	You're welcome, Alastair, but it's actually a tip passed to me by Douglas Spotted Eagle just a short time ago, so any thanks go to him. As to your analogy to megapixels in dig cameras, vector graphics is a bit different. A program like Adobe Illustrator uses mathematical vectors to fill in pixels when you increase the size of objects, whereas an app like Photoshop just zooms in on the same amount of pixels, resulting in the jagged edges we all know and love. Which is why using a vector based app to generate graphics you intend to resize for print or import into After Effects, etc. is always your best bet. __________________ Vin First Take Studios