Intermediary formats at DVinfo.net

Fred Foronda · May 9th, 2006, 09:50 PM

What else are out their besides Connect HD and Gearshift for Vegas usuers.

Glenn Chan · May 10th, 2006, 09:00 AM

apple intermediary codec.

Peter Wright · May 14th, 2006, 06:58 PM

You don't really need anything else.

Gearshift can create either DV proxies or Cineform Intermediates.

The latter can effectively replace your m2t HDV files for the purpose of finishing and rendering.

DV proxies allow you to work fluently on a slower computer, then switch back to the original HDV files for rendering.

Incidentally you can achieve both intermediates and proxies in V6 alone - the plug ins make everything easier, but you can do it in Vegas.

Brian Luce · May 14th, 2006, 09:49 PM

Are there any FAQs breaking down the various intermediary codecs for PC? so I've read about cineform, canopus HQ, and gearshift. What others? con and pros? from what I've gathered, cineform is better than HQ.

Alex Thames · May 15th, 2006, 11:14 PM

Gearshift is a program, not sure it's an actual codec (I don't think it is).

Michael Bott · May 16th, 2006, 02:00 AM

Canopus HQ is only available within Edius. However, I've been testing the Edius tryout and WOW!

I'm a Vegas user and I am used to Connect HD. I have heard say that Canopus HQ may be not quite as sharp as Cineform but that the colour is better. I can confirm that subjectively the colour DOES seem better but that the resolution seems equal to Cineform. My experience is that in Vegas I have to run the preview at Draft/Full to get realtime performance but Canopus HQ runs full res all the time in realtime.

But here's an example of why Canopus HQ is so good: while messing with what's possible in Edius I did a slo-mo experiment. As reported in another thread, I slowed an action clip down 33% and hit play. Without rendering. The clip played off smooth as glass from the timeline without missing a beat. In hi res. It was so good I'm having difficulty believing what I can see. I would have been thrilled at the result if it had taken 2 hours to render - but running off the timeline????

Mark Bryant · May 16th, 2006, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Thames

Gearshift is a program, not sure it's an actual codec (I don't think it is).

Alex you are corrrect. Gearshift is a plug-in which can help you with using a proxy and/or an intermediate. It is not a codec.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 16th, 2006, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Bott

I'm a Vegas user and I am used to Connect HD. I have heard say that Canopus HQ may be not quite as sharp as Cineform but that the colour is better. I can confirm that subjectively the colour DOES seem better but that the resolution seems equal to Cineform. ????

Do this:
Render out colorbars from your cam in both codecs. Then come back and talk about color. In other words same source, rendered to two codecs, then both opened in Pshop or other to compare original color values to rendered color values.

Michael Bott · May 16th, 2006, 08:01 AM

Hello Spot.

Well, maybe the difference I'm seeing is down to the different way that Edius seems to use the PC monitor overlay. I can't seem to get Edius to output to my CRT monitor yet. So ignore my opinion on the colour difference.

My favouring Edius at the moment is entirely to do with workflow and the availablity of batch capture for a large project. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=67327

If Vegas 7.0 had arrived at NAB with batch capture of HDV for the Cineform codec there would be no argument.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 16th, 2006, 08:50 AM

No argument from me. I wish we were seeing more advanced HDV support directly inside of Vegas too, and aside from that, Canopus have done an excellent job with their app managing HNX. Bear in mind that its' not really a DI, but rather an overall working codec. It's also significantly less efficient than CineForm, and slightly less quality, but it is indeed exceptionally well implemented. CineForm's wavelet technology (so far) hasn't been bested by any app on any platform.

Jeff Mack · May 16th, 2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

No argument from me. I wish we were seeing more advanced HDV support directly inside of Vegas too, and aside from that, Canopus have done an excellent job with their app managing HNX. Bear in mind that its' not really a DI, but rather an overall working codec. It's also significantly less efficient than CineForm, and slightly less quality, but it is indeed exceptionally well implemented. CineForm's wavelet technology (so far) hasn't been bested by any app on any platform.

Are you suggesting I might need to use Cineform to edit vs. using gearshift? I never spent the time to compare the two. I just did what was easier for me but if the quality of the end product is better, I will change.

Jeff Mack

Douglas Spotted Eagle · May 16th, 2006, 05:03 PM

Let's clarify what GearShift does. It performs a few different functions.
1. It can create a DV proxy so you can edit for HDV on a slower, older machine. If you have a 3.2 GHz machine or faster, you might find the HDI is preferable. If you have a 3.0 or slower machine, the proxies are definitely preferable.

2. It can create an HDI (High Def Intermediary) using CineForm as the codec. This is preferable for faster machines. This uses the CineForm codec that comes with Vegas.

3. It can create an HD Uncompressed output. This is required for BlackMagic Design cards.

4. It can create any two of the above. It can do this from Bins, Timeline, or File system/Explorer.

The end product is no different/better at all. The difference is in workflow. If the GearShift workflow that you are using now fits your needs, no worries, because you're getting the same final output one way or another. GearShift doesn't have a built in codec, it simply uses the tools/codecs that Vegas already provides. Including CineForm. GearShift just makes the process a bit more transparent.

May 9th, 2006, 09:50 PM	#1
Fred Foronda Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Hawaii Posts: 337	Intermediary formats What else are out their besides Connect HD and Gearshift for Vegas usuers.

May 16th, 2006, 08:50 AM	#10
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	No argument from me. I wish we were seeing more advanced HDV support directly inside of Vegas too, and aside from that, Canopus have done an excellent job with their app managing HNX. Bear in mind that its' not really a DI, but rather an overall working codec. It's also significantly less efficient than CineForm, and slightly less quality, but it is indeed exceptionally well implemented. CineForm's wavelet technology (so far) hasn't been bested by any app on any platform. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 16th, 2006, 05:03 PM	#12
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Let's clarify what GearShift does. It performs a few different functions. 1. It can create a DV proxy so you can edit for HDV on a slower, older machine. If you have a 3.2 GHz machine or faster, you might find the HDI is preferable. If you have a 3.0 or slower machine, the proxies are definitely preferable. 2. It can create an HDI (High Def Intermediary) using CineForm as the codec. This is preferable for faster machines. This uses the CineForm codec that comes with Vegas. 3. It can create an HD Uncompressed output. This is required for BlackMagic Design cards. 4. It can create any two of the above. It can do this from Bins, Timeline, or File system/Explorer. The end product is no different/better at all. The difference is in workflow. If the GearShift workflow that you are using now fits your needs, no worries, because you're getting the same final output one way or another. GearShift doesn't have a built in codec, it simply uses the tools/codecs that Vegas already provides. Including CineForm. GearShift just makes the process a bit more transparent. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

May 10th, 2006, 09:00 AM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	apple intermediary codec.

May 14th, 2006, 06:58 PM	#3
Peter Wright Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 193	You don't really need anything else. Gearshift can create either DV proxies or Cineform Intermediates. The latter can effectively replace your m2t HDV files for the purpose of finishing and rendering. DV proxies allow you to work fluently on a slower computer, then switch back to the original HDV files for rendering. Incidentally you can achieve both intermediates and proxies in V6 alone - the plug ins make everything easier, but you can do it in Vegas.

May 14th, 2006, 09:49 PM	#4
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	Are there any FAQs breaking down the various intermediary codecs for PC? so I've read about cineform, canopus HQ, and gearshift. What others? con and pros? from what I've gathered, cineform is better than HQ.

May 15th, 2006, 11:14 PM	#5
Alex Thames Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 508	Gearshift is a program, not sure it's an actual codec (I don't think it is).

May 16th, 2006, 02:00 AM	#6
Michael Bott Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, UK Posts: 47	Canopus HQ is only available within Edius. However, I've been testing the Edius tryout and WOW! I'm a Vegas user and I am used to Connect HD. I have heard say that Canopus HQ may be not quite as sharp as Cineform but that the colour is better. I can confirm that subjectively the colour DOES seem better but that the resolution seems equal to Cineform. My experience is that in Vegas I have to run the preview at Draft/Full to get realtime performance but Canopus HQ runs full res all the time in realtime. But here's an example of why Canopus HQ is so good: while messing with what's possible in Edius I did a slo-mo experiment. As reported in another thread, I slowed an action clip down 33% and hit play. Without rendering. The clip played off smooth as glass from the timeline without missing a beat. In hi res. It was so good I'm having difficulty believing what I can see. I would have been thrilled at the result if it had taken 2 hours to render - but running off the timeline????

May 16th, 2006, 08:01 AM	#9
Michael Bott Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, UK Posts: 47	Hello Spot. Well, maybe the difference I'm seeing is down to the different way that Edius seems to use the PC monitor overlay. I can't seem to get Edius to output to my CRT monitor yet. So ignore my opinion on the colour difference. My favouring Edius at the moment is entirely to do with workflow and the availablity of batch capture for a large project. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=67327 If Vegas 7.0 had arrived at NAB with batch capture of HDV for the Cineform codec there would be no argument.