V V4 Beta results?

Edward Troxel · February 6th, 2003, 08:54 PM

"To do real realtime you have to have the hardware. For previews Avid, FCP and Vegas can all do it."

While that may be true, only Vegas can do it over firewire to an external monitor for ALL effects without additional hardware help.

Aaron Koolen · February 9th, 2003, 06:07 PM

With Avid you can use a something called the "McFly" method if you have a card like a Matrox G450/550. It requires an extra video card as well and that allows you to have the preview that you normally see output to an external monitor. This preview window is not full resolution though.

Jay Gladwell · February 9th, 2003, 06:16 PM

Aaron, I think that was Ed's point exactly. With Vegas, and the way things are heading, you can/will be able to that with less dependency on extra hardware and/or cards, etc.. Of course, using an external NTSC [or PAL] monitor gives the editor full resolution. With Vegas, you can get that end result without all the "extras" needed.

Aaron Koolen · February 10th, 2003, 12:07 AM

Jay, I guess I mean taht buying a card is probably cheaper than an expensive capture card for the hardware out.

Can Vegas do external monitor output with say a Dual Head card like the 450 or 550? Could I get preview on my PC monitor and realtime output to the TV/Monitor at full res or do I have to go to firewire->cam/deck->tv?

Jay Gladwell · February 10th, 2003, 06:29 AM

"Jay, I guess I mean taht buying a card is probably cheaper than an expensive capture card for the hardware out."

No doubt about that!

"Can Vegas do external monitor output with say a Dual Head card like the 450 or 550?"

Sorry, Aaron, but not being at all familar with those cards, I really couldn't say one way or the other.

"Could I get preview on my PC monitor and realtime output to the TV/Monitor at full res or do I have to go to firewire->cam/deck->tv?"

The online manual for Vegas 4.0 states: " Vegas allows you to feed video directly from the timeline to a television monitor. With this feature, you can make your final editing decisions on a broadcast monitor (which differs significantly from a computer monitor) before printing the project to tape. To use an external monitor, you must have:

OHCI-compliant IEEE-1394 DV card

DV camcorder or DV-to-analog converter"

So I guess I need to take a small step backward and say that it does, to one degree or another, need some sort of "hardware," be it internal or external, to get the signal to the TV/Monitor. My original thinking was more along the lines of it does require the level of expensive hardware most other programs do to accomplish the same end, that being real-time viewing while editing without any pre-render.

My system uses a Sony DSR-30, which I already had before upgrading to Vegas Video 3.0. The DSR was originally purchased to save wear and tear on my camera (as opposed to using the camera as a deck) and as the recording device for rendered video. Regardless, you need either a camera or deck to get the tape into the CPU and you need either or to get the finished video onto tape. The deck serves as the means of getting the signal to the external TV/Monior, again saving wear and tear on my camera. So taking that into consideration, I don't consider the deck, as in my situation, as "extra" hardware.

Richard Alvarez · February 10th, 2003, 07:13 AM

Jay,
I don't consider my deck or video card as "extra hardware" either. So we are on the same page. Avid DOES provide realtime color correction preview out of the Parahelia card. It also provides for dual monitor support with the client monitor. Does Vegas provide that?

Both systems are "software" driven when it comes to rendering and realtime previews. When the going gets tough, Vegas drops frames, avid drops fields to get around it. Pro and cons for both choices.

Jay Gladwell · February 10th, 2003, 07:27 AM

"It [Avid] also provides for dual monitor support with the client monitor. Does Vegas provide that?"

Bill, a looong time ago an old fella once told me, "If you can't dazzle 'em with your brillance, baffle 'em with your b.s.."

To be honest, Janet's youngest boy has never been the brighest light on the tree. I have to admit I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "dual monitor support with the client monitor."

Perhaps I can find out, if someone else doesn't answer first.

Richard Alvarez · February 10th, 2003, 08:05 AM

What I mean by Dual Monitor and Client monitor is this; You get the use of two Computer monitors for your desktop... spreading out the timeline and bins and enlarging the composer monitor, while simultaneously outputing your preview to a client monitor.

Bill

Jay Gladwell · February 10th, 2003, 08:16 AM

Yes, Vegas has that capability.

Edward Troxel · February 10th, 2003, 10:15 AM

"Can Vegas do external monitor output with say a Dual Head card like the 450 or 550?"

While you *could* put the preview window on the second monitor, it will NOT allow you to view colors correctly. The BEST way is to go out the firewire to deck/cam/convertor to TV/Video Monitor so you can see the TRUE colors of the final video output and NOT what the video card wants you to see.

Jay Gladwell · February 10th, 2003, 10:30 AM

"The BEST way is to go out the firewire to deck/cam/convertor to TV/Video Monitor so you can see the TRUE colors of the final video output and NOT what the video card wants you to see."

I was under the impression that was already understood in the above posts.

February 6th, 2003, 08:54 PM	#31
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	"To do real realtime you have to have the hardware. For previews Avid, FCP and Vegas can all do it." While that may be true, only Vegas can do it over firewire to an external monitor for ALL effects without additional hardware help.

February 9th, 2003, 06:07 PM	#32
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	With Avid you can use a something called the "McFly" method if you have a card like a Matrox G450/550. It requires an extra video card as well and that allows you to have the preview that you normally see output to an external monitor. This preview window is not full resolution though.

February 9th, 2003, 06:16 PM	#33
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Aaron, I think that was Ed's point exactly. With Vegas, and the way things are heading, you can/will be able to that with less dependency on extra hardware and/or cards, etc.. Of course, using an external NTSC [or PAL] monitor gives the editor full resolution. With Vegas, you can get that end result without all the "extras" needed.

February 10th, 2003, 12:07 AM	#34
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Jay, I guess I mean taht buying a card is probably cheaper than an expensive capture card for the hardware out. Can Vegas do external monitor output with say a Dual Head card like the 450 or 550? Could I get preview on my PC monitor and realtime output to the TV/Monitor at full res or do I have to go to firewire->cam/deck->tv?

February 10th, 2003, 06:29 AM	#35
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	"Jay, I guess I mean taht buying a card is probably cheaper than an expensive capture card for the hardware out." No doubt about that! "Can Vegas do external monitor output with say a Dual Head card like the 450 or 550?" Sorry, Aaron, but not being at all familar with those cards, I really couldn't say one way or the other. "Could I get preview on my PC monitor and realtime output to the TV/Monitor at full res or do I have to go to firewire->cam/deck->tv?" The online manual for Vegas 4.0 states: " Vegas allows you to feed video directly from the timeline to a television monitor. With this feature, you can make your final editing decisions on a broadcast monitor (which differs significantly from a computer monitor) before printing the project to tape. To use an external monitor, you must have: OHCI-compliant IEEE-1394 DV card DV camcorder or DV-to-analog converter" So I guess I need to take a small step backward and say that it does, to one degree or another, need some sort of "hardware," be it internal or external, to get the signal to the TV/Monitor. My original thinking was more along the lines of it does require the level of expensive hardware most other programs do to accomplish the same end, that being real-time viewing while editing without any pre-render. My system uses a Sony DSR-30, which I already had before upgrading to Vegas Video 3.0. The DSR was originally purchased to save wear and tear on my camera (as opposed to using the camera as a deck) and as the recording device for rendered video. Regardless, you need either a camera or deck to get the tape into the CPU and you need either or to get the finished video onto tape. The deck serves as the means of getting the signal to the external TV/Monior, again saving wear and tear on my camera. So taking that into consideration, I don't consider the deck, as in my situation, as "extra" hardware.

February 10th, 2003, 07:13 AM	#36
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Jay, I don't consider my deck or video card as "extra hardware" either. So we are on the same page. Avid DOES provide realtime color correction preview out of the Parahelia card. It also provides for dual monitor support with the client monitor. Does Vegas provide that? Both systems are "software" driven when it comes to rendering and realtime previews. When the going gets tough, Vegas drops frames, avid drops fields to get around it. Pro and cons for both choices.

February 10th, 2003, 07:27 AM	#37
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	"It [Avid] also provides for dual monitor support with the client monitor. Does Vegas provide that?" Bill, a looong time ago an old fella once told me, "If you can't dazzle 'em with your brillance, baffle 'em with your b.s.." To be honest, Janet's youngest boy has never been the brighest light on the tree. I have to admit I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "dual monitor support with the client monitor." Perhaps I can find out, if someone else doesn't answer first.

February 10th, 2003, 08:05 AM	#38
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	What I mean by Dual Monitor and Client monitor is this; You get the use of two Computer monitors for your desktop... spreading out the timeline and bins and enlarging the composer monitor, while simultaneously outputing your preview to a client monitor. Bill

February 10th, 2003, 08:16 AM	#39
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Yes, Vegas has that capability.

February 10th, 2003, 10:15 AM	#40
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	"Can Vegas do external monitor output with say a Dual Head card like the 450 or 550?" While you could put the preview window on the second monitor, it will NOT allow you to view colors correctly. The BEST way is to go out the firewire to deck/cam/convertor to TV/Video Monitor so you can see the TRUE colors of the final video output and NOT what the video card wants you to see.

February 10th, 2003, 10:30 AM	#41
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	"The BEST way is to go out the firewire to deck/cam/convertor to TV/Video Monitor so you can see the TRUE colors of the final video output and NOT what the video card wants you to see." I was under the impression that was already understood in the above posts.