V V4 Beta results?

Jay Gladwell · February 4th, 2003, 12:11 PM

I think it's in keeping with other upgrades on similar products. The jump from VV 3.0 to V+DVD is quite a step up. Where else can you get that capability for $399?

I agree with Ed Fiebke, it's "reasonable."

Jeff Chandler · February 4th, 2003, 01:22 PM

Rick, I agree, I think it looks like a good NLE but I guess I'm not willing to learn another one unless I could use it to replace Premiere. I wish Canopus would write a driver for it. I'm certainly not married to Premiere and it's bugginess. I relly like the multicam capability of Vegas. But I'm not willing to give up the realtime capabilities of my Storm, because my deadlines just don't allow for a slow render!

Rick Spilman · February 4th, 2003, 01:50 PM

So Jeff, how do you like Avid DVXpress? Any comments as compared to Vegas or Premiere?

Edward Troxel · February 4th, 2003, 03:31 PM

If Vegas is rendering the entire timeline, you definitely have something wrong. It ONLY renders the sections that need rendering such as transitions, where overlays/titles are added...

However, there IS a common cause for Vegas wanting to render everything and that is the master opacity level on the track. Sometimes it will get knocked down below 100% (like 99.8%) which you cannot visibly see a difference but will require every frame to be rendered.

I, weekly, edit a one hour tv program, it will only render about about 6 minutes worth of that footage. The remaining 54 minutes remains untouched from the original captured DV-AVI - no rendering at all is required for those 54 minutes.

Rick Spilman · February 4th, 2003, 04:20 PM

Edward,

Thanks for the response. Something definately seemed wrong. I'll have to be careful with the interface.

I am still struggling to get use to the Sonic Foundry way of doing things. Vegas has so many nice features and so many odd quirks that I am still slowly working through.

Rick

Bill Ravens · February 4th, 2003, 04:52 PM

I went from Premiere to Pinnacle DV7 to VV3. At the time I started VV3, it seemed a little odd. Now, when I have to go do something on AE...it just seems WAY odd...LOL.

Rick Spilman · February 4th, 2003, 05:17 PM

Odd in software seems to be what ever one isn't use to. Applies to many things with the possible exception of my Uncle Louis. He's odd and that is all there is to it.

Rick

Bill Ravens · February 4th, 2003, 08:02 PM

LOL

Jeff Chandler · February 5th, 2003, 09:00 AM

Rick,
I really like Avid, especially things like the customizable interface. It allows me and my students to configure it the way we like it individually. What I don't like is the learning curve, very steep (at least for a slow guy like me!), but I think it's mainly the un-learning Premiere thing. It does everything in a different way, and after working in Premiere for so many years (4.0 tocurrent version) it is hard to break old habits. I think it's also that I'm leaning FCP at the same time. Too much for too small a brain. As far as VV go, there are things I like about it, but I will admit that I struggle with the interface. It just seems very strange to me. If Canopus would write a driver for it though, I would make myself get over that hurdle. Also, if I could just leave Premiere behind, I think it would help me tremendously. Unfortunately, I can't do that, at least not yet.

Rick Spilman · February 5th, 2003, 10:54 AM

"If Canopus ......"

Unfortunately there are so many ways to finish that sentence. If Canopus woud do almost anything interesting... Oh well. I've just about completely given up on Canopus. Love my RexRT board for color correction and such, but I've had it with Premiere. I like what I see with Vegas, so at least for now I'll use it.

Rick

Richard Alvarez · February 6th, 2003, 08:25 AM

Interesting thread guys, thanks for the responses. Not being a Vegas user, I was curious as to what changes were being made to the system. Looks like they made some smart choices.

The review comparing it to Avid was incorrect however. You do get realtime color correction via the Parahelia card. Which of course means you also have dual monitors with a client monitor as well. Does Vegas support three point edits and rolling trims? I was a little surprised to see it is improving it's "ripple" abilities.

Jay Gladwell · February 6th, 2003, 09:19 AM

I guess that's one of the advantages of Vegas, it doesn't require a specific kind of card to do real-time color correction.

To answer any questions you might have, I'd suggest you visit http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums and select the "Vegas - Video Topics" forum.

Hope this helps.

Jeff Chandler · February 6th, 2003, 10:19 AM

To do real realtime you have to have the hardware. For previews Avid, FCP and Vegas can all do it.

Bill Ravens · February 6th, 2003, 10:49 AM

There has been a great deal of talk over at the Sofo/VV3 forum regarding hardware support for this product. As of this point, it's still just talk. Dedicated hardware support would make the product significantly more expensive...and as processor speeds increase, the day will come where hardware support for an NLE will be passe'.

Jeff Chandler · February 6th, 2003, 11:17 AM

Agreed. But I need realtime (out to DV) color correction, etc. now. And I have it with my DV Storm. No one knows how soon those things will be available in software only. But based on the limitations that exist even with the hardware, I think it is a ways off. And once you've experienced the ability to do those thigs in realtime, it would be extremely difficult to go back to the renders. For me, deadlines don't allow it. If Vegas would work with my Storm, I would be really interested.

February 4th, 2003, 01:22 PM	#17
Jeff Chandler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mesa, Az. Posts: 167	Rick, I agree, I think it looks like a good NLE but I guess I'm not willing to learn another one unless I could use it to replace Premiere. I wish Canopus would write a driver for it. I'm certainly not married to Premiere and it's bugginess. I relly like the multicam capability of Vegas. But I'm not willing to give up the realtime capabilities of my Storm, because my deadlines just don't allow for a slow render! __________________ Jeff Chandler

February 5th, 2003, 09:00 AM	#24
Jeff Chandler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mesa, Az. Posts: 167	Rick, I really like Avid, especially things like the customizable interface. It allows me and my students to configure it the way we like it individually. What I don't like is the learning curve, very steep (at least for a slow guy like me!), but I think it's mainly the un-learning Premiere thing. It does everything in a different way, and after working in Premiere for so many years (4.0 tocurrent version) it is hard to break old habits. I think it's also that I'm leaning FCP at the same time. Too much for too small a brain. As far as VV go, there are things I like about it, but I will admit that I struggle with the interface. It just seems very strange to me. If Canopus would write a driver for it though, I would make myself get over that hurdle. Also, if I could just leave Premiere behind, I think it would help me tremendously. Unfortunately, I can't do that, at least not yet. __________________ Jeff Chandler

February 6th, 2003, 10:19 AM	#28
Jeff Chandler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mesa, Az. Posts: 167	To do real realtime you have to have the hardware. For previews Avid, FCP and Vegas can all do it. __________________ Jeff Chandler

February 6th, 2003, 11:17 AM	#30
Jeff Chandler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mesa, Az. Posts: 167	Agreed. But I need realtime (out to DV) color correction, etc. now. And I have it with my DV Storm. No one knows how soon those things will be available in software only. But based on the limitations that exist even with the hardware, I think it is a ways off. And once you've experienced the ability to do those thigs in realtime, it would be extremely difficult to go back to the renders. For me, deadlines don't allow it. If Vegas would work with my Storm, I would be really interested. __________________ Jeff Chandler

February 4th, 2003, 12:11 PM	#16
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	I think it's in keeping with other upgrades on similar products. The jump from VV 3.0 to V+DVD is quite a step up. Where else can you get that capability for $399? I agree with Ed Fiebke, it's "reasonable."

February 4th, 2003, 01:50 PM	#18
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	So Jeff, how do you like Avid DVXpress? Any comments as compared to Vegas or Premiere?

February 4th, 2003, 03:31 PM	#19
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	If Vegas is rendering the entire timeline, you definitely have something wrong. It ONLY renders the sections that need rendering such as transitions, where overlays/titles are added... However, there IS a common cause for Vegas wanting to render everything and that is the master opacity level on the track. Sometimes it will get knocked down below 100% (like 99.8%) which you cannot visibly see a difference but will require every frame to be rendered. I, weekly, edit a one hour tv program, it will only render about about 6 minutes worth of that footage. The remaining 54 minutes remains untouched from the original captured DV-AVI - no rendering at all is required for those 54 minutes.

February 4th, 2003, 04:20 PM	#20
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	Edward, Thanks for the response. Something definately seemed wrong. I'll have to be careful with the interface. I am still struggling to get use to the Sonic Foundry way of doing things. Vegas has so many nice features and so many odd quirks that I am still slowly working through. Rick

February 4th, 2003, 04:52 PM	#21
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I went from Premiere to Pinnacle DV7 to VV3. At the time I started VV3, it seemed a little odd. Now, when I have to go do something on AE...it just seems WAY odd...LOL.

February 4th, 2003, 05:17 PM	#22
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	Odd in software seems to be what ever one isn't use to. Applies to many things with the possible exception of my Uncle Louis. He's odd and that is all there is to it. Rick

February 4th, 2003, 08:02 PM	#23
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	LOL

February 5th, 2003, 10:54 AM	#25
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	"If Canopus ......" Unfortunately there are so many ways to finish that sentence. If Canopus woud do almost anything interesting... Oh well. I've just about completely given up on Canopus. Love my RexRT board for color correction and such, but I've had it with Premiere. I like what I see with Vegas, so at least for now I'll use it. Rick

February 6th, 2003, 08:25 AM	#26
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Interesting thread guys, thanks for the responses. Not being a Vegas user, I was curious as to what changes were being made to the system. Looks like they made some smart choices. The review comparing it to Avid was incorrect however. You do get realtime color correction via the Parahelia card. Which of course means you also have dual monitors with a client monitor as well. Does Vegas support three point edits and rolling trims? I was a little surprised to see it is improving it's "ripple" abilities.

February 6th, 2003, 09:19 AM	#27
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	I guess that's one of the advantages of Vegas, it doesn't require a specific kind of card to do real-time color correction. To answer any questions you might have, I'd suggest you visit http://www.sonicfoundry.com/forums and select the "Vegas - Video Topics" forum. Hope this helps.

February 6th, 2003, 10:49 AM	#29
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	There has been a great deal of talk over at the Sofo/VV3 forum regarding hardware support for this product. As of this point, it's still just talk. Dedicated hardware support would make the product significantly more expensive...and as processor speeds increase, the day will come where hardware support for an NLE will be passe'.