Renders and codecs at DVinfo.net

Eric Lawson · April 3rd, 2006, 04:32 PM

Greetings I am a long time reader, first time poster. I am new to vegas and hdv but over the past few months I have been trying to absorb as much information as possible. I own the Sony A1u and have Vegas 6.0d. The issue I have been working on the most, is rendering high quality video for distribution to my friends on a data dvd that they could play on their computers or through media centers onto high def. displays. The problem that I am trying to resolve is that motion onscreen and even motion as small as someone moving their head appears to have interlace issues. This is especially appearent when there is a bright background. I was content to slowly and methodically work through this problem until I saw a review of the HC1 at www.Tomshardware.com On the last few pages of the review it discusses using TMPGenc 3.0 XPress to encode the 1440 x 1080 files to WMV H.263 with a playing time of 1:23 and a file size of 17mb. I expected the quality of the videos to be somewhat close to what I have produced but I was absolutely blown away. I found the H.263 codec under .avi but it says the selected codec does not support the current render settings. I pretty much have interlace problems unless I render at the absolute highest resolution. I have used the Switches/Reduce interlace flicker and that has helped. I render using the best setting, and I have increased the bitrates when possible from the default settings. Any suggestions for my problem and how you can get this quality of video at such a small file size? Thanks

Here is a link to the video page
http://www.denguru.com/2006/03/30/so...c1/page15.html

Fred Helm · April 3rd, 2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Lawson

Greetings I am a long time reader, first time poster. I am new to vegas and hdv but over the past few months I have been trying to absorb as much information as possible. I own the Sony A1u and have Vegas 6.0d. The issue I have been working on the most, is rendering high quality video for distribution to my friends on a data dvd that they could play on their computers or through media centers onto high def. displays. The problem that I am trying to resolve is that motion onscreen and even motion as small as someone moving their head appears to have interlace issues. This is especially appearent when there is a bright background. I was content to slowly and methodically work through this problem until I saw a review of the HC1 at www.Tomshardware.com On the last few pages of the review it discusses using TMPGenc 3.0 XPress to encode the 1440 x 1080 files to WMV H.263 with a playing time of 1:23 and a file size of 17mb. I expected the quality of the videos to be somewhat close to what I have produced but I was absolutely blown away. I found the H.263 codec under .avi but it says the selected codec does not support the current render settings. I pretty much have interlace problems unless I render at the absolute highest resolution. I have used the Switches/Reduce interlace flicker and that has helped. I render using the best setting, and I have increased the bitrates when possible from the default settings. Any suggestions for my problem and how you can get this quality of video at such a small file size? Thanks

Here is a link to the video page
http://www.denguru.com/2006/03/30/so...c1/page15.html

Man, I am getting my butt kicked right now with the same issue!!!! I dont understand why my edges break up so badly after render? Im shooting on HC1's with SD helmet cams thrown in the timeline as well. Im rendering Mpeg2/custom/8mbps-max/7mbps-avg/4mbps-low and have the second pass box checked. I used the interlace reduction on every section. IM rendering now at 4hours for 32 minutes. Im getting broken images even on static cams on tripods mostly when zoomed in. Itrs killing me and the customers product! Its never been this bad...options?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 3rd, 2006, 10:21 PM

Are you using pan/crop? I'm wondering if you're offsetting a field.

Eric Lawson · April 4th, 2006, 02:16 AM

No pan/crop is used at all. Also down resing to dvd is even worse with everthing having jaggies. I hear everyone talking about how good their standard definition looks by using vegas but I have yet to see it. Could anyone detail their settings for down resing for standard or dvd so I could possibly eliminate some possible causes of the problem. Actually what would be great is if I could see some standard definition someone has converted from 1440 x 1080 native footage. I really appreciate the help as I have already rendered 40-60 files just to try out different settings. Thanks

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 4th, 2006, 08:15 AM

Eric,
I have no idea why this is occurring. We do this daily and have no issues, there is no secret, IMO.
Start with an HDV timeline. Not HD, HDV. (1440 x 1080)
Render to SD using one of the MPEG templates, set to BEST.
If you are rendering to widescreen MPEG, it will render faster/cleaner than if you're rendering to 4:3. If you're rendering to 4:3, you'll have to choose whether to Pan/Crop or letterbox. Your best bet is to render to widescreen.

David Harwood · April 11th, 2006, 07:26 AM

I am too having problems rendering HDV from a HDR-FX1 to SD for cutting to DVD.

I have tried the following:
a. Set Project to HDV
b. Set Project Properties - Deinterlace method to None (I have also tried Interpolated)
c. Import footage and place on timeline
d. Set Reduce Interlace flicker switch
e. Render as MainConcept DVDPAL

The resulting footage contains jaggies along edges.

I also have tried rendering to 720-25p, and whilst it is better, there are still jaggies.

The only way currently that I can produce fine footage is to render to 1080-50i and with the disable resample switch, produce the file which can then be read by Nero to cut the DVD, with Nero doing yet another converting exercise.

I have been stuck with this problem, trying to get to the bottom of it for three nights now. Very frustrating!

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 11th, 2006, 07:38 AM

Where are you monitoring? If you are monitoring interlaced footage on an LCD or CRT computer monitor, you'll see "jaggies" because these displays are interlaced. If you want deinterlaced footage, you can do this in Vegas quite easily as well, but you'll need to still use the BEST export/render. Bear in mind it will be interlaced when shown on a television.

David Harwood · April 11th, 2006, 09:33 AM

Once the file has been rendered, I am playing back on a Pinnacle ShowCenter, a network streaming device, to a Hidef Plasma.

One thing I haven't tried is actually producing the DVD, but I assume that it would be the same. Possibly I should try this.

I understand the problem when looking at a computer monitor.

Phil Hamilton · April 12th, 2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Harwood

One thing I haven't tried is actually producing the DVD, but I assume that it would be the same. Possibly I should try this.
I understand the problem when looking at a computer monitor.

Try putting it on the DVD as progressive. When I play back on my dvd through my DLP home theater screen I get the quality I want - you might also try VLC media player which plays close to what the DVD will.

David Harwood · April 12th, 2006, 05:14 PM

I have now tried putting the footage onto DVD.

I have used DVD Architect with a video file from VEGAS: DVD Architect Pal W/S Video Stream, with Smart Resample and Interpolate set. The resultant DVD still has jagged lines and is not of good quality at all.

I have also tried a HDV 720-25p file (which plays fine on my streaming media player to my Plasma), and again on the DVD I get jagged lines.

I have not set the switch to reduce the interlace flicker as this seems to impair quality - but it may be the only way forward. I will try this over the weekend.

I am going mad with this problem as reading forums etc. some people have the problem, and some don't. Any further advice will be greatly appreciated.

Jim Montgomery · April 12th, 2006, 06:33 PM

My workflow is as follows

Render the m2t or cineform timeline using MainConcept Mpeg-2, DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream, click on Custom, Advanced Video tabs and change field order to Progressive Only. Do not touch any other settings.

This will give you an Mpeg file that can be burned to DVD. To create a HiDef file to play on a computer frame serve from Vegas to Nero H264 codec. Thats another story.

Jim

Douglas Spotted Eagle · April 12th, 2006, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Harwood

I have now tried putting the footage onto DVD.

I have used DVD Architect with a video file from VEGAS: DVD Architect Pal W/S Video Stream, with Smart Resample and Interpolate set. The resultant DVD still has jagged lines and is not of good quality at all.

I have also tried a HDV 720-25p file (which plays fine on my streaming media player to my Plasma), and again on the DVD I get jagged lines.

I have not set the switch to reduce the interlace flicker as this seems to impair quality - but it may be the only way forward. I will try this over the weekend.

I am going mad with this problem as reading forums etc. some people have the problem, and some don't. Any further advice will be greatly appreciated.

If you are rendering for your plasma, then you likely want progressive output. I don't have a PAL display, so can't replicate your problem, but if you're working with an HD timeline all the way to the end, it's surprising you're seeing interlace artifacts.

Eric Lawson · April 12th, 2006, 06:49 PM

Thanks for all the help guys. After a little more experimentation I figured out that the problem was trying to use the computer to play it back. Thanks

David Harwood · April 13th, 2006, 12:55 PM

Thanks too for all your help. I have successfully done it. My problem was that I did not have the progressive setting set on the MPEG2 template.

I still have to have deinterlace method on, which confuses me sa I would have thought Vegas would have known, but I am very happy with my footage now I have a workflow for HD and DVD.

April 3rd, 2006, 04:32 PM	#1
Eric Lawson Tourist Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 3	Renders and codecs Greetings I am a long time reader, first time poster. I am new to vegas and hdv but over the past few months I have been trying to absorb as much information as possible. I own the Sony A1u and have Vegas 6.0d. The issue I have been working on the most, is rendering high quality video for distribution to my friends on a data dvd that they could play on their computers or through media centers onto high def. displays. The problem that I am trying to resolve is that motion onscreen and even motion as small as someone moving their head appears to have interlace issues. This is especially appearent when there is a bright background. I was content to slowly and methodically work through this problem until I saw a review of the HC1 at www.Tomshardware.com On the last few pages of the review it discusses using TMPGenc 3.0 XPress to encode the 1440 x 1080 files to WMV H.263 with a playing time of 1:23 and a file size of 17mb. I expected the quality of the videos to be somewhat close to what I have produced but I was absolutely blown away. I found the H.263 codec under .avi but it says the selected codec does not support the current render settings. I pretty much have interlace problems unless I render at the absolute highest resolution. I have used the Switches/Reduce interlace flicker and that has helped. I render using the best setting, and I have increased the bitrates when possible from the default settings. Any suggestions for my problem and how you can get this quality of video at such a small file size? Thanks Here is a link to the video page http://www.denguru.com/2006/03/30/so...c1/page15.html

April 3rd, 2006, 10:21 PM	#3
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Are you using pan/crop? I'm wondering if you're offsetting a field. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 4th, 2006, 08:15 AM	#5
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Eric, I have no idea why this is occurring. We do this daily and have no issues, there is no secret, IMO. Start with an HDV timeline. Not HD, HDV. (1440 x 1080) Render to SD using one of the MPEG templates, set to BEST. If you are rendering to widescreen MPEG, it will render faster/cleaner than if you're rendering to 4:3. If you're rendering to 4:3, you'll have to choose whether to Pan/Crop or letterbox. Your best bet is to render to widescreen. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 11th, 2006, 07:26 AM	#6
David Harwood Tourist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swansea,UK Posts: 4	HDV to SD Problems Too! I am too having problems rendering HDV from a HDR-FX1 to SD for cutting to DVD. I have tried the following: a. Set Project to HDV b. Set Project Properties - Deinterlace method to None (I have also tried Interpolated) c. Import footage and place on timeline d. Set Reduce Interlace flicker switch e. Render as MainConcept DVDPAL The resulting footage contains jaggies along edges. I also have tried rendering to 720-25p, and whilst it is better, there are still jaggies. The only way currently that I can produce fine footage is to render to 1080-50i and with the disable resample switch, produce the file which can then be read by Nero to cut the DVD, with Nero doing yet another converting exercise. I have been stuck with this problem, trying to get to the bottom of it for three nights now. Very frustrating!

April 11th, 2006, 07:38 AM	#7
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Where are you monitoring? If you are monitoring interlaced footage on an LCD or CRT computer monitor, you'll see "jaggies" because these displays are interlaced. If you want deinterlaced footage, you can do this in Vegas quite easily as well, but you'll need to still use the BEST export/render. Bear in mind it will be interlaced when shown on a television. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

April 4th, 2006, 02:16 AM	#4
Eric Lawson Tourist Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 3	No pan/crop is used at all. Also down resing to dvd is even worse with everthing having jaggies. I hear everyone talking about how good their standard definition looks by using vegas but I have yet to see it. Could anyone detail their settings for down resing for standard or dvd so I could possibly eliminate some possible causes of the problem. Actually what would be great is if I could see some standard definition someone has converted from 1440 x 1080 native footage. I really appreciate the help as I have already rendered 40-60 files just to try out different settings. Thanks

April 11th, 2006, 09:33 AM	#8
David Harwood Tourist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swansea,UK Posts: 4	Once the file has been rendered, I am playing back on a Pinnacle ShowCenter, a network streaming device, to a Hidef Plasma. One thing I haven't tried is actually producing the DVD, but I assume that it would be the same. Possibly I should try this. I understand the problem when looking at a computer monitor.

April 12th, 2006, 05:14 PM	#10
David Harwood Tourist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swansea,UK Posts: 4	I have now tried putting the footage onto DVD. I have used DVD Architect with a video file from VEGAS: DVD Architect Pal W/S Video Stream, with Smart Resample and Interpolate set. The resultant DVD still has jagged lines and is not of good quality at all. I have also tried a HDV 720-25p file (which plays fine on my streaming media player to my Plasma), and again on the DVD I get jagged lines. I have not set the switch to reduce the interlace flicker as this seems to impair quality - but it may be the only way forward. I will try this over the weekend. I am going mad with this problem as reading forums etc. some people have the problem, and some don't. Any further advice will be greatly appreciated.

April 12th, 2006, 06:33 PM	#11
Jim Montgomery Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vero Beach Posts: 392	My workflow is as follows Render the m2t or cineform timeline using MainConcept Mpeg-2, DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream, click on Custom, Advanced Video tabs and change field order to Progressive Only. Do not touch any other settings. This will give you an Mpeg file that can be burned to DVD. To create a HiDef file to play on a computer frame serve from Vegas to Nero H264 codec. Thats another story. Jim

April 12th, 2006, 06:49 PM	#13
Eric Lawson Tourist Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 3	Thanks for all the help guys. After a little more experimentation I figured out that the problem was trying to use the computer to play it back. Thanks

April 13th, 2006, 12:55 PM	#14
David Harwood Tourist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swansea,UK Posts: 4	Thanks too for all your help. I have successfully done it. My problem was that I did not have the progressive setting set on the MPEG2 template. I still have to have deinterlace method on, which confuses me sa I would have thought Vegas would have known, but I am very happy with my footage now I have a workflow for HD and DVD.