DV Uprez Settings at DVinfo.net

Patrick King · March 27th, 2006, 06:37 PM

OK, no flames about the merit of uprezzing SD to HD, let's just assume that I have some primo 24p XL-2 video (SD) that I want to uprez to play on my new Xxxxx HD-DVD player (when it comes out).

What settings in Vegas would produce the best possible output without paying extra for the RedGiant or other plig-in? (And once again, no kibbitzing on whether I should try and uprez or about how dismal the quality will be compared to wonderful HD/HDV video from camera Xxx; the footage exists, its SD and I want to make it HD using Vegas!)

What VideoFX might improve the render (Sharpen, Smart Smoother)?

What available output HD formats will surrender the most pleasing results (again recognizing that it will not equal TRUE HD/HDV footage)?

Has anyone experimented with this?

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 27th, 2006, 06:44 PM

Well...I'd answer your question, but you have a lot of rules about what can't be said.
So, just drop the footage on an HD timeline, add .010 of sharpening, and leave it at that. Lots of experimenting here, there is a comparison on the VASST site about doing this very thing.
Nothing at all wrong with doing it in Vegas, but it seems you have a lot of ideas about what does and doesn't work?

Patrick King · March 27th, 2006, 09:23 PM

DSE,
Thanks for the reply. The rant was not at you, or any of the other folks who I knew would actually give me tips on what might produce better quality. Lately whenever the topic of uprez comes up, it seems that many that have HD cams immediately slam the topic of trying to uprez. So I do appreciate your response.

A .010 sharpen seems reasonable. Would a Force Resample assist with sharpening the image during the render to an HD format?

Do you have experience with the different HD output formats? Vegas provides so many options it is overwhelming sometimes. Will the HD mpeg2 look as sharp as the wmv HD formats? Or is that just something I need to try? Thanks again.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 27th, 2006, 09:48 PM

The mpeg two will be sharper than the wmv format, not softer. It's a lesser compression scheme and overall, more intelligent even if it's not as small. MP4 is the future though, that's what you should be concerned with.
Vegas doesn't need to be force-resampled.
What I'd do were I you, is this:
Shoot a ruler on a piece of paper that has lots of color. A chip chart would be best. With the ruler in the image, turn off the lights and shine a small flashlight on the ruler, and then flash the light into the lens. Get say...30 seconds of this. Then render that out into various formats, and you'll see for yourself what you like best. Yes, I've experimented with just about every format there is. MP4 is my current "working recipe" that I'm trying to find the perfect match for. Plain vanilla isn't my style.
It's not just understanding the encode, it's KNOWING your delivery format, because each delivery format is treated differently, usually.

Patrick King · March 27th, 2006, 10:17 PM

While I was waiting on your reply I rendered a short 24p sample using the WMV format (V9 Advanced, 24P, Best Quality, VBR 1440x1080) and it was almost three times the file size of the MainConcept MPEG2 HD 1440x1080 24P. And even though the file size was three times larger, the quality was much less than even the starting SD imagery. the WMV format introduced a great deal of mosquito noise that really detracted from the result.

How do you select MPEG4 output? The only "Save As" type listed as .mp4 is the MainConcept AVC/AAC (*.mp4) and the only Template options listed are the Default and the Apple iPod Video, both of which are 320x240 or 640x480. It seems that I should have a real HD mp4 option in there somewhere.

Brian K Jones · March 29th, 2006, 12:50 PM

Vegas has an Mpeg4 option?

Edward Troxel · March 29th, 2006, 03:03 PM

Brian, what version are you running?

MPEG4 is definitely in the later versions of Vegas 6.

Brian K Jones · March 29th, 2006, 03:53 PM

I've got Vegas 6 versionb, but I have not had much time to mess it with until recently.

Edward Troxel · March 29th, 2006, 04:26 PM

You might want to update to 6.0d.

Patrick King · March 29th, 2006, 07:20 PM

I think version 6.0c added the Sony AVC/ACC MPEG4 render option and then in version 6.0d the MainConcept MPEG4 was added. Though both are for small screen viewing (only 320x240 or 640x480).

March 27th, 2006, 06:37 PM	#1
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	DV Uprez Settings OK, no flames about the merit of uprezzing SD to HD, let's just assume that I have some primo 24p XL-2 video (SD) that I want to uprez to play on my new Xxxxx HD-DVD player (when it comes out). What settings in Vegas would produce the best possible output without paying extra for the RedGiant or other plig-in? (And once again, no kibbitzing on whether I should try and uprez or about how dismal the quality will be compared to wonderful HD/HDV video from camera Xxx; the footage exists, its SD and I want to make it HD using Vegas!) What VideoFX might improve the render (Sharpen, Smart Smoother)? What available output HD formats will surrender the most pleasing results (again recognizing that it will not equal TRUE HD/HDV footage)? Has anyone experimented with this? __________________ Fear No Weevil!

March 27th, 2006, 06:44 PM	#2
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	Well...I'd answer your question, but you have a lot of rules about what can't be said. So, just drop the footage on an HD timeline, add .010 of sharpening, and leave it at that. Lots of experimenting here, there is a comparison on the VASST site about doing this very thing. Nothing at all wrong with doing it in Vegas, but it seems you have a lot of ideas about what does and doesn't work? __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 27th, 2006, 09:23 PM	#3
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	DSE, Thanks for the reply. The rant was not at you, or any of the other folks who I knew would actually give me tips on what might produce better quality. Lately whenever the topic of uprez comes up, it seems that many that have HD cams immediately slam the topic of trying to uprez. So I do appreciate your response. A .010 sharpen seems reasonable. Would a Force Resample assist with sharpening the image during the render to an HD format? Do you have experience with the different HD output formats? Vegas provides so many options it is overwhelming sometimes. Will the HD mpeg2 look as sharp as the wmv HD formats? Or is that just something I need to try? Thanks again. __________________ Fear No Weevil!

March 27th, 2006, 09:48 PM	#4
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	The mpeg two will be sharper than the wmv format, not softer. It's a lesser compression scheme and overall, more intelligent even if it's not as small. MP4 is the future though, that's what you should be concerned with. Vegas doesn't need to be force-resampled. What I'd do were I you, is this: Shoot a ruler on a piece of paper that has lots of color. A chip chart would be best. With the ruler in the image, turn off the lights and shine a small flashlight on the ruler, and then flash the light into the lens. Get say...30 seconds of this. Then render that out into various formats, and you'll see for yourself what you like best. Yes, I've experimented with just about every format there is. MP4 is my current "working recipe" that I'm trying to find the perfect match for. Plain vanilla isn't my style. It's not just understanding the encode, it's KNOWING your delivery format, because each delivery format is treated differently, usually. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 27th, 2006, 10:17 PM	#5
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	While I was waiting on your reply I rendered a short 24p sample using the WMV format (V9 Advanced, 24P, Best Quality, VBR 1440x1080) and it was almost three times the file size of the MainConcept MPEG2 HD 1440x1080 24P. And even though the file size was three times larger, the quality was much less than even the starting SD imagery. the WMV format introduced a great deal of mosquito noise that really detracted from the result. How do you select MPEG4 output? The only "Save As" type listed as .mp4 is the MainConcept AVC/AAC (*.mp4) and the only Template options listed are the Default and the Apple iPod Video, both of which are 320x240 or 640x480. It seems that I should have a real HD mp4 option in there somewhere. __________________ Fear No Weevil!

March 29th, 2006, 12:50 PM	#6
Brian K Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 68	Vegas has an Mpeg4 option?

March 29th, 2006, 03:03 PM	#7
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Brian, what version are you running? MPEG4 is definitely in the later versions of Vegas 6. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

March 29th, 2006, 03:53 PM	#8
Brian K Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 68	I've got Vegas 6 versionb, but I have not had much time to mess it with until recently.

March 29th, 2006, 04:26 PM	#9
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	You might want to update to 6.0d. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

March 29th, 2006, 07:20 PM	#10
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	I think version 6.0c added the Sony AVC/ACC MPEG4 render option and then in version 6.0d the MainConcept MPEG4 was added. Though both are for small screen viewing (only 320x240 or 640x480). __________________ Fear No Weevil!