Vegas Video discussions from 2002

[Jay Gladwell]

Thank you, Bill, for the clarification. Much appreciated. I guess we were talking about two different manuals.

Well, first I'd like to mention what I had originally meant to say in my post...

I have been following this message board for several months and learned a LOT from it. I believe this is one of the very best I've ever seen, in terms of design, contributions and most importantly, philosophy. My heartfelt thanks to all of you and especially to Mr. Hurd who's providing such a great forum.

Now back to your replies...

Kermie, it may be that you are more proficient (read: advanced) at all this stuff than you realize. On the other hand, we do NOT have a closed mind on anything so I really apreciate the encouragement. Your info about the creator of Final Cut/Premiere was most interesting. Too bad Adobe doesn't understand then that they should use that person's approach for ALL their software (can you imagine the market share they would get if they ever made PSP truly usable and dropped the price by half? No one could touch them! But I digress...)

Bill, I will be looking forward to whatever you hear at VAST. Thanks in advance for your update.

Edward, you seem quite knowledgeable about VV. What has your experience been with the company's upgrade policy, "bug-squashing" and support in general?

Anyone else cares to contribute?

[Zac Stein]

Thanx for the compliment.


I do have a nagging problem with the adobe products which does really annoy me, is that they are never contained, if you use premiere it basicly means you must use after effects with it for final touches and/or other effects.

if you use photoshop you really need illustrator as well, but alas each program has a specific intention in mind, and the massive bloat(ware) would be unmanagable if they combined.

I personally feel that adobe has captured the feel throughout their programs, but yes you are completly correct in saying the functionality does differ a lot.

I am not closed minded at all, i want something that will give me the most freedom, and best results. I fell into premiere because it is a very predictable program, it does what you expect it to do, and is repeatable. Its' video side of things is about second to none, and really does give a lot of freedom in the type of projects 'I REQUIRE'. I say that big because i am talking about my uses not anyone elses.

But again its drawback is the audio side, which while functioning is very primative. Vegas video on the totally opposite side of the fence was first designed as an audio program then had video added in. If you think about that, you realise just how great it is for sound, but the video side is a tiny bit lacking, nothing wrong with it, but just ever so slightly falls behind premiere in that department.

One other thing for my needs that flew me back into adobe products is that i can open a premiere project in after effext (one of the more excellent compositors out there, with a nice and small learning curve too) then export the project with modifications back into premiere, if i really wanted to i could set up a frame serve and access the same file from many different programs.

You see everything has its advantages, i was lucky enough to be at a great university that got us student prices then supplemented the prices further as we required the programs for our course and we got them very very cheap.

Painshop pro i have used too, and for what it is, it is bloody fantastic, it lacks a tiny bit on photoshop but geez it does everything you could want realistically and is small and contained, it doubles up too and does vector type graphics like illustrator. But the tradeoff is always there, it is good but not quite as powerful.

You must choose what is correct for you, i suggest and i mean this seriously, is to go into a production house, or even better into a university, and find a person incharge of the media department or similar, and explain your position and ask if you can have a use of these programs running on a pc. Alot of shops when you buy them offer a 45 day return policy for trial. Thats another way. Ask if you can hang out with a student who is editing a presentation or short film on premiere and then find a trial of VV to play with.

I do suggest looking at what you need, and what you will need in the future, and remember that there are even more programs out there!!! And please don't discount anything until you have viewed them all, i was blessed with having them provided to me but you can do that too, and never discount anything until you have played with it, as you said adobe don't do everything equally so one program will be easy as others are difficult.

And rememeber if you need to in the future look at compositing which almost undoubtably you will, think of intergration with other programs, because whilst the best ones out there like 'shake' which is a $18,000 program on pc for the very latest version, whilst after effects of combustion are much cheaper, but of course after effects will integrate better.

Don't be scared of the learning curve, just enjoy exploring and having each project comming out nicer than the next, heck took me 4 years to semi master photoshop and i learn something new everytime i use it.

Kermie

ps. feel free to email me with any questions, help or advice on any of the programs you choose to go with, in the end it all comes down to you what the output is like, not the program.

pps. excuse the spelling it is late down here

[Edward Troxel]

The 350 page manual IS FREE and is downloadable as a pdf file from:

http://www.sonicfoundry.com/download/step2.asp?DID=367

It is an 8.6 meg download and is the complete instruction manual for Vegas Video 3. While it may not be the best manual in the world, it does a pretty good job of comprehisively discussing the various features.

I recommend printing it and putting it in a binder. If you can print it in color, it would be even better. This download is the exact same manual (actually it may be newer) as the $29.95 purchase.

[Edward Troxel]

"Edward, you seem quite knowledgeable about VV. What has your experience been with the company's upgrade policy, "bug-squashing" and support in general?"


I have found the upgrade policy to be very good. The upgrade from version 2 to 3 was $100 (or $150) and added many new features. As for bugs, they actively monitor the forums and are very responsive to phone calls. If there is a true problem, they will work to fix it. If it is a procedural error, they will give the correct procedure. As for bugs, they work hard to try to replicate problems and fix the bugs as they appear. Currently, VV has had 3 updates (current version is 3.0c) all of which are free updates. I have seldom seen a company that supports their customers better.

[Michael Wisniewski]

Here's another editor for your research list.

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage.asp?Product_ID=561&langue_id=7

[Josh Bass]

To Miles J. What is your company going to be using the video technology for?

If it's relatively simple things like traning videos or something similar, Vegas Video would probably be fine (I have it, great program). But, if you're doing fancy stuff requiring batch lists, EDLs, and multiple edits (online/offline) then I believe Final Cut Pro is the best (or at least most affordable--1000 bucks for FCP versus 2000 for the home version of Avid) thing for you.

Sorry for the delay in following up, I've been out of the loop...

Thanks for the link, Mickey, Pinnacle Edition does indeed look like a real contender! I've added them to the short list.

Josh, I work for a non-profit, performing and educational organization (http://www.usatap.org/) that has gotten a small grant to purchase long-needed video recording/archiving equipment (and is looking for much more money to supplement that, wink, wink...) The list is long but one of the main components is of course a computer station dedicated to processing and archiving old and new video footage. One of the first tasks will be to archive - probably to DVD for now - more than two hundred hours of priceless footage (some going back to VHS) which for a number of reasons we do not want to farm out. We also shoot our own live dance/music concerts and I'm also working on a short list for a 3 ccd camcorder. As a matter of fact I will be posting a question about that on a separate forum.

By the way, are you all as concerned and upset as I am with this ridiculous, short-sighted format war with now at least 4 different DVD standards? Is there anything we users can do about it?

Anyway, I'm still VERY interested in hearing first-hand feedback from people who have purchased Vegas Video-based turnkey systems (especially any with Sound Forge also installed.) Anyone?

[Bill Ravens]

VV and BOXX technologies have an agreement to market a turnkey system based on SoFo products. I have built my own replica system that consists of a TYAN MP dually, AMD 1.2 Athlons, 1024 Mb Crucial ECC RAM, ATi Radeon 8500DV video, M-Audio 1010LT soundcard, etc. etc. The system has performed flawlessly with no hiccups or failures. I routinely to editting with VV3, produce audio streams for the video and send output to DVD or SVCD. I love this system.

> VV and BOXX technologies have an agreement to market a turnkey system based on SoFo products.

I guess you are referring to the one on Sonic Foundry's web page (http://www.sonicfoundry.com/products/NewShowProduct.asp?PID=674)? That's the only one we was aware of, and we weren't crazy about it because of the "older" OS used. Once we purchase the sytem we will probably upgrade all other PCs to Win XP pro to have optimal compatibilty in the company. However you post prompted me to go beyond the Sofo site and to the Boxx site and I found that they do make the machine with XP Pro. BUT, once configured with something like your sustem the price goes way high, and without options for VV software!

Why Sonic Foundry doesn't offer "audio-video bundles" of their evidently well-rated products truly baffles me! I bet if they knocked off a few hundred dollars of the separate prices they would sell a lot of these babies.

Might there be other vendors that build systems with Sonic Foundry software? My search didn't yield much.

> I have built my own replica system that consists of a TYAN MP dually, AMD 1.2 Athlons, 1024 Mb Crucial ECC RAM, ATi Radeon 8500DV video, M-Audio 1010LT soundcard, etc. etc. The system has performed flawlessly with no hiccups or failures. I routinely to editting with VV3, produce audio streams for the video and send output to DVD or SVCD. I love this system.

Well YOU know how to do this obviously. Lucky guy! Just out of curiosity, have you priced your total cost for this great system?

[Bill Ravens]

Miles...

Relative to your question re: pricing my system.....I have to admit that I have not. I'm afraid to know the answer...;-).

I'm sure there are a number of people around who could assemble such a system for you at a reasonable labor cost. It's really not that difficult. If you're wanting to consider doing that, I'd be glad to send you a list of my hardware...you can then go out and price the components for yourself. PRICEWATCH.com is a good place to find the best deal on components. Then, all you need is someone to assemble everything.

[Josh Bass]

True. I would think You could get top notch stuff, if you bought the components separately, for under 1000 dollars (maybe well under- I paid about 400 and got a new motherboard, processor, case and fan which made my system an Athlon 1600 xp- previously a PIII 500--but you'll probably want even more power than this).

[Josh Bass]

Okay, follow me here. I'm sizing a piece of video, with a my subject in the center of the frame. I want to cut out everything but a small area around the subject. After I do this, I want to move this sized area around, having it push onto the screen from offscreen.

I cannot accomplish this. Whenever I try to move the video, what actually moves is the sized area itself, over the video, as though I'm looking through a moving window. The video itself stays static, but the sized "window" through which I see the video moves over it. Does that make any sense?

Anyway, I've played with all the settings concerning aspect ratio and the like, have tried holding various keys while moving the video around, all to no avail. Someone save me!

[Bill Ravens]

Josh....

If I understand your problem correctly....
it sounds like you're trying to use the TRACK MOTION button instead of the EVENT PAN/CROP button. The Track Motion button appears on the left of the video tracks while the Event Pan/Crop appears at the right side of each individual event on the timeline. The difference between the two functions is very subtle, but, will result in the problem you're experiencing. Note that the Event Pan/Crop applies only to the Event that the button lies in. If you want to apply that Pan/Crop to all the events in the timeline, you've gotta set up a template and reset each event individually.

[Josh Bass]

I don't think so. The event pan/crop button is the one on each event, on the right side. . .sort of square shaped. That's the one I clicked to get into the dialogue box. I'll take another look just in case. It'll let me size and move the video when it's at it's regular 4:3 ratio, but if I try to change the shape of the video and then move it, I experience the problem I described.

Yup, just checked. Definitely been using the pan/crop mode.