Vegas Video discussions from 2002

David Mintzer · November 26th, 2002, 03:21 PM

Film effect is more dependent on how you light and shoot your feature then on what software can do to it after the fact. You should contact a company like Swiss Effects before shooting in order to receive guidance on what they will need from you.

As far as Vegas goes, I dont see why it wouldn't do a wonderful job for editing a feature---I just finished a two hour documentary using it and it worked wonderfully.

Edward Troxel · November 26th, 2002, 03:39 PM

The absolute easiest method to achieve this effect would be to buy the Pixelan spices - this allows you to use various pictures as wipes and is fully keyframeable.

There IS a workaround but you have to use 3 video tracks, and parent/child two of them. If you wish to post your e-mail address, I could send you a sample project.

Edward Troxel · November 26th, 2002, 03:50 PM

Look for an e-mail of a sample project with a "heart" shaped dissolve.

Don Donatello · November 26th, 2002, 04:23 PM

1)
90 min documentary ... captured 34 hrs of selected tapes ( shot 70hrs +)

better management of clips would be helpful BUT came up with own system ....

i think a scripted feature would be much easier to manage the clips ....

2)
SoFo does sell a extra set of filtes and one is a FILM FX ..haven't used it .. i think you can download and give it a try.
IMO FIlm looks ALL looks phoney- YES on a 19" TV it looks good BUT 36" and larger IMO the film FX sticks out. ... i think you can get better results crushing the blacks slightly and smoothing the highlights ( give gamma a S curve) ...plus converting 60i to 30P or shoot frame mode/progressive ...

magicman · November 26th, 2002, 05:31 PM

Josh,

On the technique that you used. You might try to use the color picker when you make the black background in VV. What I mean is, click on the color of the background that you created in Photoshop, instead of choosing just a black background. Just a thought.

Josh Bass · November 27th, 2002, 01:13 AM

Genius! What a retard I am!

Frank Granovski · December 3rd, 2002, 08:21 PM

1) Is this software for non-commercal use only, or can you legally do anything with it?

2) How powerful is it when compared with, say, FCP? Premiere?

magicman · December 4th, 2002, 07:43 AM

Vegas can be used for commercial use, it has no restrictions. However, if the software is bought through the acediemic discount available to students and teachers, it is not supposed to be used for commercial use. Other than that, you can make all the money you want with it.

I personally have not used FCP, and my knowledge of Premiere is limited. However, the information I get from reading many, many posts and reviews is this: As far as the basic editing functions and features, they are about the same. Each has it's good and bad points. Most claim that Vegas is easier to learn and functions and commands are more upfront (not hidden in multiple menu paths). Vegas has some very powerful compositing and audio tools. I think that these are two areas where it excels. The "real time" preview on computer, video monitor, or television is very helpful and unique, no rendering necessary before you can see the results of your work. Viewing on a video monitor or TV is especially helpful when doing color correction.

Vegas is lacking in EDL and bins and does not presently compete with Premiere and FCP in this area. However, rumor has it that the next version will include these features on the professional level.

Vegas also does not have much in the way of outside plugin support. SoFo does have their own plugin packs and Pixelean does also. In addition, the oh so generous Satish is writing plugins for Vegas and offering them for free (you probably already know about these).

Overall, FCP and Premiere have been around and have made their mark in the video world. Vegas however is coming up from behind at a rapid pace. I think everyone will be surprised to see what Vegas comes up with when version 4 is released (suspected some time 1st qtr 2003).

Oh did I mention that Vegas is extremely stable. It has not crashed or locked up on me once in the eight months I've used it. And that's including the times when I have one instance of Vegas rendering in the background, while editing in another.

IMO

magicman

Edward Troxel · December 4th, 2002, 09:40 AM

1) Is this software for non-commercal use only, or can you legally do anything with it?

Vegas can definitely be used for commercial use. We do so every day.

2) How powerful is it when compared with, say, FCP? Premiere?

Vegas is just as powerful as either of these programs. In some areas, FCP or Premiere will excel - in other areas, Vegas will. Then general consensus seems to be: for speed of editing, ease of use, accessibility of options, AUDIO - Vegas wins. If you need specialized "real-time" hardware - Premiere is needed. If you use a Mac, FCP.

As mentioned before, the weaknesses currently in Vegas are generally related to: EDL imports and exports, Clip Management (although I use the explorer view and can organize via subdirectories), and plug-ins. We do not yet know how many of the deficiencies will be remedied in Vegas 4.

Richard Alvarez · December 4th, 2002, 10:01 AM

The differents systems have their strengths and weakness, as everyone says.

Think about what you need TODAY, and what you are likely to need TOMORROW.

Don't forget to take a look at Avid XpressDV. Especially if you are interested in long form and editing in FILM. OR are planning to transfer to a professional suite. This is where Avid excells. But it is the most expensive of the NLE's for DV, so it might be more than you need.

Frank Granovski · December 4th, 2002, 05:03 PM

Thanks. That's what I thought. These 2 questions were asked by a friend of mine, now I can answer him.

Andrew Petrie · December 9th, 2002, 11:07 AM

When I record footage from my camera via firewire to Vegas' capture utility, it always uses Microsoft's DV Recorder as the capture device.

I get paranoid, because everyone says to avoid the MS codec. I have it turned off in Vegas, and specifically tell Vegas to use Sonic's DV codec.

But Microsoft DV Recorder listed as the device being used is OK, right? BEcause it's uncompressed at this stage and has nothing to do with codecs....aye?

Rob Lohman · December 9th, 2002, 11:53 AM

Well, you are not correct with one thing. It is not uncompressed!!
It actually is already in the DV format!! Your camera has a
DV encoder onboard that converts the signals to DV format. So
what your computer does whilst capturing is actually a simple
file transfer (more or less). The camera sends the DV packets
and the computer writes these to your harddisk without changing
anything (except when you are splitting audio, but that still
does not has anything todo with codecs).

So yes, you do not have to worry about Vegas using microsoft
tools to transfer your footage!

Edward Troxel · December 9th, 2002, 01:07 PM

The codec ONLY comes into play when you are editing video. Whenever you add a title or dissolve or other effect, that portion of video must be rendered. It is this rendering that uses the codec - NOT the transfer to/from the camera.

Andrew Petrie · December 10th, 2002, 09:47 AM

Heh, excellent. Thanks for clarifying. Pretty straightforward when I think about it.

November 26th, 2002, 03:21 PM	#181
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	rextilleon Film effect is more dependent on how you light and shoot your feature then on what software can do to it after the fact. You should contact a company like Swiss Effects before shooting in order to receive guidance on what they will need from you. As far as Vegas goes, I dont see why it wouldn't do a wonderful job for editing a feature---I just finished a two hour documentary using it and it worked wonderfully.

November 27th, 2002, 01:13 AM	#186
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Genius! What a retard I am! __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

December 3rd, 2002, 08:21 PM	#187
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	2 Vegas Video questions 1) Is this software for non-commercal use only, or can you legally do anything with it? 2) How powerful is it when compared with, say, FCP? Premiere?

December 9th, 2002, 11:07 AM	#192
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	Vegas firewire transfer When I record footage from my camera via firewire to Vegas' capture utility, it always uses Microsoft's DV Recorder as the capture device. I get paranoid, because everyone says to avoid the MS codec. I have it turned off in Vegas, and specifically tell Vegas to use Sonic's DV codec. But Microsoft DV Recorder listed as the device being used is OK, right? BEcause it's uncompressed at this stage and has nothing to do with codecs....aye? __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

December 9th, 2002, 11:53 AM	#193
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Well, you are not correct with one thing. It is not uncompressed!! It actually is already in the DV format!! Your camera has a DV encoder onboard that converts the signals to DV format. So what your computer does whilst capturing is actually a simple file transfer (more or less). The camera sends the DV packets and the computer writes these to your harddisk without changing anything (except when you are splitting audio, but that still does not has anything todo with codecs). So yes, you do not have to worry about Vegas using microsoft tools to transfer your footage! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 26th, 2002, 03:39 PM	#182
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The absolute easiest method to achieve this effect would be to buy the Pixelan spices - this allows you to use various pictures as wipes and is fully keyframeable. There IS a workaround but you have to use 3 video tracks, and parent/child two of them. If you wish to post your e-mail address, I could send you a sample project.

November 26th, 2002, 03:50 PM	#183
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Look for an e-mail of a sample project with a "heart" shaped dissolve.

November 26th, 2002, 04:23 PM	#184
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	1) 90 min documentary ... captured 34 hrs of selected tapes ( shot 70hrs +) better management of clips would be helpful BUT came up with own system .... i think a scripted feature would be much easier to manage the clips .... 2) SoFo does sell a extra set of filtes and one is a FILM FX ..haven't used it .. i think you can download and give it a try. IMO FIlm looks ALL looks phoney- YES on a 19" TV it looks good BUT 36" and larger IMO the film FX sticks out. ... i think you can get better results crushing the blacks slightly and smoothing the highlights ( give gamma a S curve) ...plus converting 60i to 30P or shoot frame mode/progressive ...

November 26th, 2002, 05:31 PM	#185
magicman New Boot Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 9	Josh, On the technique that you used. You might try to use the color picker when you make the black background in VV. What I mean is, click on the color of the background that you created in Photoshop, instead of choosing just a black background. Just a thought.

December 4th, 2002, 07:43 AM	#188
magicman New Boot Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 9	Vegas can be used for commercial use, it has no restrictions. However, if the software is bought through the acediemic discount available to students and teachers, it is not supposed to be used for commercial use. Other than that, you can make all the money you want with it. I personally have not used FCP, and my knowledge of Premiere is limited. However, the information I get from reading many, many posts and reviews is this: As far as the basic editing functions and features, they are about the same. Each has it's good and bad points. Most claim that Vegas is easier to learn and functions and commands are more upfront (not hidden in multiple menu paths). Vegas has some very powerful compositing and audio tools. I think that these are two areas where it excels. The "real time" preview on computer, video monitor, or television is very helpful and unique, no rendering necessary before you can see the results of your work. Viewing on a video monitor or TV is especially helpful when doing color correction. Vegas is lacking in EDL and bins and does not presently compete with Premiere and FCP in this area. However, rumor has it that the next version will include these features on the professional level. Vegas also does not have much in the way of outside plugin support. SoFo does have their own plugin packs and Pixelean does also. In addition, the oh so generous Satish is writing plugins for Vegas and offering them for free (you probably already know about these). Overall, FCP and Premiere have been around and have made their mark in the video world. Vegas however is coming up from behind at a rapid pace. I think everyone will be surprised to see what Vegas comes up with when version 4 is released (suspected some time 1st qtr 2003). Oh did I mention that Vegas is extremely stable. It has not crashed or locked up on me once in the eight months I've used it. And that's including the times when I have one instance of Vegas rendering in the background, while editing in another. IMO magicman

December 4th, 2002, 09:40 AM	#189
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	1) Is this software for non-commercal use only, or can you legally do anything with it? Vegas can definitely be used for commercial use. We do so every day. 2) How powerful is it when compared with, say, FCP? Premiere? Vegas is just as powerful as either of these programs. In some areas, FCP or Premiere will excel - in other areas, Vegas will. Then general consensus seems to be: for speed of editing, ease of use, accessibility of options, AUDIO - Vegas wins. If you need specialized "real-time" hardware - Premiere is needed. If you use a Mac, FCP. As mentioned before, the weaknesses currently in Vegas are generally related to: EDL imports and exports, Clip Management (although I use the explorer view and can organize via subdirectories), and plug-ins. We do not yet know how many of the deficiencies will be remedied in Vegas 4.

December 4th, 2002, 10:01 AM	#190
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	The differents systems have their strengths and weakness, as everyone says. Think about what you need TODAY, and what you are likely to need TOMORROW. Don't forget to take a look at Avid XpressDV. Especially if you are interested in long form and editing in FILM. OR are planning to transfer to a professional suite. This is where Avid excells. But it is the most expensive of the NLE's for DV, so it might be more than you need.

December 4th, 2002, 05:03 PM	#191
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Thanks. That's what I thought. These 2 questions were asked by a friend of mine, now I can answer him.

December 9th, 2002, 01:07 PM	#194
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	The codec ONLY comes into play when you are editing video. Whenever you add a title or dissolve or other effect, that portion of video must be rendered. It is this rendering that uses the codec - NOT the transfer to/from the camera.

December 10th, 2002, 09:47 AM	#195
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	Heh, excellent. Thanks for clarifying. Pretty straightforward when I think about it. __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)