Vegas Video discussions from 2002

Michael Wisniewski · November 18th, 2002, 12:02 PM

Perfect thank you!

Bill Ravens · November 18th, 2002, 12:14 PM

I've been playing with this codec too. The data bitrate for the 10 bit codec is around 30 Mb/sec.....well, as you can guess, on playback it made my system choke...not enough data thruput on my video IDE drive. Guess I need a RAID for this to work better.

Joe Carney · November 18th, 2002, 12:32 PM

Bill, yes, you get enourmous files with this codec. Yet they are 20 to 30 percent smaller than uncompressed avi or quicktime. This codec is not meant for general use unless you have a system with lots of horsepower and resources. However, if you are doing a short (under 2min) comp for AE, or another animation/comp program, this is a great codec to use.

checkout http://www.onerivermedia.com/codecs for a complete
review of the latest quicktime codecs. Even though the site is geared toward apple/fcp, all the native quicktime codecs informations apply to Quicktime for Windows too.

Quicktime is still the best way to share stills/video between apps on Windows. Be nice if some advanced Directshow filters would start showing up, but that hasn't happend yet.

The 64bit codec (Microcosm) from Theory LLC is also available for Quictime for Windows. A Demo can be downloaded from Anarchy.
Just follow the links from the onerivermedia site. It's listed under
the 4:4:4 uncompressed codec tests.

Josh Bass · November 21st, 2002, 03:36 AM

What's the deal with these prerenders? Isn't this like regular rendering in say, Avid or Final Cut Pro?

When I output, it renders the necessary content. It seems to me that if they've been rendered once, those files are saved somewhere on my hard drive, and therefore I should be able to output again WITHOUT rendering anything, unless I've made changes to some of my effects and whatnot. However, every time I output (using the print to DV tape function, maybe here's the problem?) it has to render everything all over again. How can I get it to just render once, and without changes being made, not again?

Edward Troxel · November 21st, 2002, 10:55 AM

Ok, let's back up and see if you *really* have a problem:

A pre-render DOES create a new file on the hard drive equivalent to a render. Pre-renders are indicated by little green lines above the pre-rendered sections. If you have the green lines, you DO have pre-renders that WILL be used.

However, you have to be careful or you can lose ALL of your pre-renders. For example, if you add a new track, all prerenders will be gone. If you add a track wide, or project wide, effect, all pre-renders will be gone. So, before you print to tape, are the green lines still there? Depending on settings, you may also lose the pre-renders when you exit and reenter the program (look for preferences concerning pre-renders).

Finally, when you do the PTT, it will look at the entire project to see if anything else needs rendering - this will be the FIRST pass of the status bar. If it finds things to be rendered, they will be rendered in 10 second (300 frame) increments. Finally, the audio will be converted to a .w64 file.

So:
1) Are you doing something to lose your pre-renders?
2) Are you interpreting the "check to see if anything need to be rendered" as rendering?
3) Are you interpreting the .w64 generation as rendering?
4) Were there indeed changes to some sections that really needed rendering?

Josh Bass · November 21st, 2002, 01:19 PM

Not sure, good sir. I'll just to have wait till I encounter the problem again.

Edward Troxel · November 21st, 2002, 02:26 PM

Personally, I NEVER pre-render. Instead, I work on my project in segments, and then render each segment to a new file. When done with all of the segments, I create a "final" project and pull all of the segments, in order, onto the timeline and create transitions between the segments as needed (i.e. overlap or make sure I fade to/from black...). Then, for the final render, all it has to render is the overlapping segments.

As an alternative, if you KNOW you want to keep a rendering and even be able to move it around, choose the option to render to a new track.

Don Donatello · November 21st, 2002, 05:38 PM

John are you printing from time line to tape ?
or rendering to a new clip then transfer that new file to tape ?

by any chance are you using FRAME MODE clips ?

Josh Bass · November 21st, 2002, 11:47 PM

Yes, tape to timeline. Yes, they are frame mode clips.

Don Donatello · November 24th, 2002, 01:52 PM

from my experience PRINT from TIME line using frame mode .
just didn't work for me as it pre render frames that i never changed /applied FX's ..

i found it better to have the project properties field order as NONE (progressive scan) -provided all clips are frame mode.

PLUS
when you Print from time line ..
"conform to DV format "window pops up ... click CUSTOM /VIDEO
..now change the field order to NONE (PROGRESSIVE scan) ...
now up at the top of window TEMPLATE - type in frame mode (or any name ) and then click the save icon ... now in the future under TEMPLATE you will pick frame mode to print from time line.
so next time when the conform to DV format window pops up you will select frame mode from the pull down ...

Josh Bass · November 24th, 2002, 03:24 PM

Thanks. I'll give it a try when I get there.

Dennis Turkmen · November 26th, 2002, 11:06 AM

I have a few questions about Vegas Video 3.

1. Has anyone used it to edit a feature length movie? If so, how did it handle the job?

2.I was wondering if vegas video 3 comes with any filters to make the video look more like film, or do I need to purchase a seperate plug-in?

Thanks

Bill Ravens · November 26th, 2002, 01:49 PM

It comes with a film look plugin that works OK. Sonic Foundry actually has a tutorial out on how to do the film look with VV3.
The technique involves the re-rendering at 24fps with "resample video" turned on

Edward Troxel · November 26th, 2002, 01:51 PM

1. Has anyone used it to edit a feature length movie? If so, how did it handle the job?

Feature length movie, NO. Feature length (Two Hour) event - YES. I routinely edit two hour events using Vegas and it handles it extremely well. I experience no speed differences whether the project is 30 seconds or 2 hours.

2.I was wondering if vegas video 3 comes with any filters to make the video look more like film, or do I need to purchase a seperate plug-in?

Kind of. It has the built-in film effects which is mainly for "old style" film looks. However, there is also an additional effects package available from Sonic Foundry's website that adds more effects and transitions that may be beneficial. Finally, it can render to, basically, any format. You would just have to test some of the various features and see how well it works for you.

Josh Bass · November 26th, 2002, 02:53 PM

Does anyone have a method for creating a custom shaped wipe in Vegas Video? YOu know at the end of cartoons and movies where the screen gradually closes in on a subject, in say, a circular shape ("that's all folks")? Well I want to do that, but using a star of David shape.

I created a star shape in photoshop against a black background of 655X480 and imported into VV, then chroma keyed out the star shape, leaving a black background. I used four copies of a black solid color background to fill in the areas of the screen that the custom shape failed to cover as it got smaller. I realized that the black of my custom shape is lighter than VV's black. I see no way around this. Any ideas?

November 21st, 2002, 03:36 AM	#169
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	prerender files in Vegas Video 3 What's the deal with these prerenders? Isn't this like regular rendering in say, Avid or Final Cut Pro? When I output, it renders the necessary content. It seems to me that if they've been rendered once, those files are saved somewhere on my hard drive, and therefore I should be able to output again WITHOUT rendering anything, unless I've made changes to some of my effects and whatnot. However, every time I output (using the print to DV tape function, maybe here's the problem?) it has to render everything all over again. How can I get it to just render once, and without changes being made, not again? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

November 21st, 2002, 01:19 PM	#171
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Not sure, good sir. I'll just to have wait till I encounter the problem again. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

November 21st, 2002, 11:47 PM	#174
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Yes, tape to timeline. Yes, they are frame mode clips. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

November 24th, 2002, 03:24 PM	#176
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Thanks. I'll give it a try when I get there. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

November 26th, 2002, 11:06 AM	#177
Dennis Turkmen New Boot Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 13	A few Vegas Video 3 questions I have a few questions about Vegas Video 3. 1. Has anyone used it to edit a feature length movie? If so, how did it handle the job? 2.I was wondering if vegas video 3 comes with any filters to make the video look more like film, or do I need to purchase a seperate plug-in? Thanks

November 18th, 2002, 12:02 PM	#166
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	Perfect thank you!

November 18th, 2002, 12:14 PM	#167
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	I've been playing with this codec too. The data bitrate for the 10 bit codec is around 30 Mb/sec.....well, as you can guess, on playback it made my system choke...not enough data thruput on my video IDE drive. Guess I need a RAID for this to work better.

November 18th, 2002, 12:32 PM	#168
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Bill, yes, you get enourmous files with this codec. Yet they are 20 to 30 percent smaller than uncompressed avi or quicktime. This codec is not meant for general use unless you have a system with lots of horsepower and resources. However, if you are doing a short (under 2min) comp for AE, or another animation/comp program, this is a great codec to use. checkout http://www.onerivermedia.com/codecs for a complete review of the latest quicktime codecs. Even though the site is geared toward apple/fcp, all the native quicktime codecs informations apply to Quicktime for Windows too. Quicktime is still the best way to share stills/video between apps on Windows. Be nice if some advanced Directshow filters would start showing up, but that hasn't happend yet. The 64bit codec (Microcosm) from Theory LLC is also available for Quictime for Windows. A Demo can be downloaded from Anarchy. Just follow the links from the onerivermedia site. It's listed under the 4:4:4 uncompressed codec tests.

November 21st, 2002, 10:55 AM	#170
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Ok, let's back up and see if you really have a problem: A pre-render DOES create a new file on the hard drive equivalent to a render. Pre-renders are indicated by little green lines above the pre-rendered sections. If you have the green lines, you DO have pre-renders that WILL be used. However, you have to be careful or you can lose ALL of your pre-renders. For example, if you add a new track, all prerenders will be gone. If you add a track wide, or project wide, effect, all pre-renders will be gone. So, before you print to tape, are the green lines still there? Depending on settings, you may also lose the pre-renders when you exit and reenter the program (look for preferences concerning pre-renders). Finally, when you do the PTT, it will look at the entire project to see if anything else needs rendering - this will be the FIRST pass of the status bar. If it finds things to be rendered, they will be rendered in 10 second (300 frame) increments. Finally, the audio will be converted to a .w64 file. So: 1) Are you doing something to lose your pre-renders? 2) Are you interpreting the "check to see if anything need to be rendered" as rendering? 3) Are you interpreting the .w64 generation as rendering? 4) Were there indeed changes to some sections that really needed rendering?

November 21st, 2002, 02:26 PM	#172
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Personally, I NEVER pre-render. Instead, I work on my project in segments, and then render each segment to a new file. When done with all of the segments, I create a "final" project and pull all of the segments, in order, onto the timeline and create transitions between the segments as needed (i.e. overlap or make sure I fade to/from black...). Then, for the final render, all it has to render is the overlapping segments. As an alternative, if you KNOW you want to keep a rendering and even be able to move it around, choose the option to render to a new track.

November 21st, 2002, 05:38 PM	#173
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	John are you printing from time line to tape ? or rendering to a new clip then transfer that new file to tape ? by any chance are you using FRAME MODE clips ?

November 24th, 2002, 01:52 PM	#175
Don Donatello Hawaiian Shirt Mogul Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: northern cailfornia Posts: 1,261	from my experience PRINT from TIME line using frame mode . just didn't work for me as it pre render frames that i never changed /applied FX's .. i found it better to have the project properties field order as NONE (progressive scan) -provided all clips are frame mode. PLUS when you Print from time line .. "conform to DV format "window pops up ... click CUSTOM /VIDEO ..now change the field order to NONE (PROGRESSIVE scan) ... now up at the top of window TEMPLATE - type in frame mode (or any name ) and then click the save icon ... now in the future under TEMPLATE you will pick frame mode to print from time line. so next time when the conform to DV format window pops up you will select frame mode from the pull down ...

November 26th, 2002, 01:49 PM	#178
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	It comes with a film look plugin that works OK. Sonic Foundry actually has a tutorial out on how to do the film look with VV3. The technique involves the re-rendering at 24fps with "resample video" turned on

November 26th, 2002, 01:51 PM	#179
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	1. Has anyone used it to edit a feature length movie? If so, how did it handle the job? Feature length movie, NO. Feature length (Two Hour) event - YES. I routinely edit two hour events using Vegas and it handles it extremely well. I experience no speed differences whether the project is 30 seconds or 2 hours. 2.I was wondering if vegas video 3 comes with any filters to make the video look more like film, or do I need to purchase a seperate plug-in? Kind of. It has the built-in film effects which is mainly for "old style" film looks. However, there is also an additional effects package available from Sonic Foundry's website that adds more effects and transitions that may be beneficial. Finally, it can render to, basically, any format. You would just have to test some of the various features and see how well it works for you.

November 26th, 2002, 02:53 PM	#180
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	custom wipes in Vegas Video 3 Does anyone have a method for creating a custom shaped wipe in Vegas Video? YOu know at the end of cartoons and movies where the screen gradually closes in on a subject, in say, a circular shape ("that's all folks")? Well I want to do that, but using a star of David shape. I created a star shape in photoshop against a black background of 655X480 and imported into VV, then chroma keyed out the star shape, leaving a black background. I used four copies of a black solid color background to fill in the areas of the screen that the custom shape failed to cover as it got smaller. I realized that the black of my custom shape is lighter than VV's black. I see no way around this. Any ideas? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB