Vegas Video discussions from 2003

Peter Jefferson · September 11th, 2003, 08:31 AM

the audio distortion i was referring to was from the whites/brightness exceeding broadcast range, which can cause interferance with the audio. Not the file itself, but the TV's amp.

Your TV should display the image as it is recorded onto tape, its the monitor which will be darker than the tv.

Obviosuly it depends on how youve callibrated the monitor.

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 08:36 AM

Does anyone know if Vegas uses video overlay to display the preview window. I remember in Premiere that you could open up your video card's overlay controls while in Premiere to adjust the display of the preview window. It even had options for "overlay" and "primary surface". I don't see these settings in Vegas?

I'm assuming Vegas doesn't' use overlay to display the preview window- reason being: I distinctly remember my still captures from within Premier turning out much darker than how they looked in the Preview window. Obviously showing it was a discrepency between monitor display calibration and overlay display settings. However in Vegas my captures look exactly like they do from within Vegas's preview window.

Peter Jefferson · September 11th, 2003, 08:37 AM

it depends on the network and what theyre requirements are.
But broadcast safe colour is a legal requirement now.
About 15 years ago i remember watching tv and the ads would come on and bang, half the audio was washed out in buzz evertime white came on screen.

Vegas has a broadcast safe filter which has templates for settings pertaining to where you are geographically in the world.

i would suggest you use these. However as your doing a commercial for broadcast use, i would strongly suggest you get in touch with the stations and find out what they require.

they might prefer to use their own. Im no expert in this as i dont usually work outside my little world, but im sure there are afew people here who can assist you with this query

as for vectorscopes, these allow you to view the colour range and together with the colour corection, allow for precise colour reprocessing

Michael Wisniewski · September 11th, 2003, 09:58 AM

No the pop up stopped coming up, I just get Vegas 3.0

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 10:05 AM

Are there any books or literature that describe how exactly to use them?

Also where is the broadcast safe filters? What do they do- simply tone down saturations and bright colors to bring them into the broadcast safe spectrum.

Lastly from the way you described it broadcast safe colors were enforce specifically because of audio distortion...do I have this correct?

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 10:06 AM

Uninstall Vegas 3.0.

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 10:12 AM

Oh jeez I didn't even know there WAS a 1.5. Is it an upgrade or do I have to uninstall it completly and install 1.5 fresh?

Still with the sync tool it leaves the audio of the top clip in place when syncing...and I made extra sure all clips and their audio were selected.

Michael Wisniewski · September 11th, 2003, 10:22 AM

:-) Okay that worked. Thanks.

Edward Troxel · September 11th, 2003, 10:31 AM

I'll send you 1.5 with the proper install info.

Jeff Donald · September 11th, 2003, 10:33 AM

I used to work in broadcast in a fairly large market (Cincinnati) and the stations will run your video through processors that will correct the colors that are out of range. Depending on the quality of the processors that fix the signal and how the station engineers have them set, will determine how good your footage looks broadcast.

We used an HP model that allowed you to see the illegal colors and adjust them. If you were in a hurry or if it was being feed to a satellite etc. we'd push a button marked Make Legal and it would fix the colors. Most of the time it would look good. Occasionally it would clip the colors pretty hard.

Edward Troxel · September 11th, 2003, 10:38 AM

Here is a list of fixes made to Excalibur from the initial release to version 1.5.

Version 1.0b 5/12/2003
1. Corrected problem reading the Marker Interval from the INI file.

Version 1.5 6/12/2003
Excalibur now requires Vegas 4.0c to run

1. Leave Holes may now be turned off in Multi-Cam Wizard even if effects have been added.
2. Eliminated possibility of duplicate nodes in Voice Over Wizard.
3. Now sets the default point in Velocity Wizard instead of creating a second point.
4. Sync Wizard is no longer Case-Sensitive.
5. Multi-Cam Wizard is no longer Case-Sensitive.
6. Multi-Cam Wizard now works correctly with Non-SMPTE rulers.
7. Multi-Cam Wizard "Dissolve By Default" option added (Requires "C" (i.e. "MC") for cut)
8. Voice-Over Wizard new option to Remove Previous Volume Adjustments.
9. Multi-Cam Wizard new option to alternate between two cameras without naming each marker.
10. Corrected problem reading Gap Dissolve from the INI file.
11. Gap Wizard now works when items are at the beginning of the timeline.
12. Gap Wizard now adds dissolves on cuts even when "Maintain Original Overlaps" is checked while allowing true overlaps to remain.
13. Corrected problem where Multi-Cam Wizard could skip moving a clip to the "Master" track.
14. Fade Wizard now has an option to change only the front fade or change only the end fade.
15. Corrected problem reading Fade Wizard options from the INI file.
16. Corrected problem not doing a first dissolve.
17. Corrected problem doing one and a half on the second dissolve.

Edward Troxel · September 11th, 2003, 10:40 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Still with the sync tool it leaves the audio of the top clip in place when syncing...and I made extra sure all clips and their audio were selected. -->>>

Sound like it could be an upper/lower case issue. Version 1.5 should fix this for you.

Andre De Clercq · September 11th, 2003, 11:00 AM

I don't know anything about the Vegas filters, but I happen to know what legal colors are...Analog TV broadcasting means that the transmitter radiates amplitude modulated HF signals. This means for that the amplitude of the carrier (HF signal) is being changed in accordance to the video amplitude. NTSC uses "negative modulation" meaning that the brightest signal parts result in the lowest amplitudes. Because of the way audio is added (FM moulated carrier) and regenerated in the receivers (intercarrier), it turns out that the lowest value of the transmitted carrier must be above 10% in order to let the intercarrier demodulation at the receiver side work flawlessly (no rattle,buzz..). This means that the signals which are fed into the modulator at the transmitter side need to have limited amplitudes. Knowing that luma and chroma signals are being summed up before modulation, it's luma AND chroma(color) which need to be limited below a given level. Some of the summed up luma/chroma combinations can generate signals which have amplitudes which would end up in "overmodulation" (<10%) even when the luma (=B&W part) is perfectly within the limits. Those chroma signals which would cause this overmodulation in combination with legal luma signals are called "illegal colors". I suppose Vegas clips or indicates those unwanted combinations.

Rob Wilson · September 11th, 2003, 11:13 AM

Andre

I sure am glad there are guys like you out there that understand that stuff! I got a headache just reading it!!!

Glen Elliott · September 11th, 2003, 02:24 PM

*in my best Homer Simpson voice* Ahhhhhhhh, OK.

September 11th, 2003, 09:58 AM	#1039
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	No the pop up stopped coming up, I just get Vegas 3.0 __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

September 11th, 2003, 10:22 AM	#1043
Michael Wisniewski Wrangler Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Makati, Metro Manila Posts: 2,706 Images: 32	:-) Okay that worked. Thanks. __________________ "Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese

September 11th, 2003, 10:33 AM	#1045
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I used to work in broadcast in a fairly large market (Cincinnati) and the stations will run your video through processors that will correct the colors that are out of range. Depending on the quality of the processors that fix the signal and how the station engineers have them set, will determine how good your footage looks broadcast. We used an HP model that allowed you to see the illegal colors and adjust them. If you were in a hurry or if it was being feed to a satellite etc. we'd push a button marked Make Legal and it would fix the colors. Most of the time it would look good. Occasionally it would clip the colors pretty hard. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 11th, 2003, 08:31 AM	#1036
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	the audio distortion i was referring to was from the whites/brightness exceeding broadcast range, which can cause interferance with the audio. Not the file itself, but the TV's amp. Your TV should display the image as it is recorded onto tape, its the monitor which will be darker than the tv. Obviosuly it depends on how youve callibrated the monitor.

September 11th, 2003, 08:36 AM	#1037
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Does anyone know if Vegas uses video overlay to display the preview window. I remember in Premiere that you could open up your video card's overlay controls while in Premiere to adjust the display of the preview window. It even had options for "overlay" and "primary surface". I don't see these settings in Vegas? I'm assuming Vegas doesn't' use overlay to display the preview window- reason being: I distinctly remember my still captures from within Premier turning out much darker than how they looked in the Preview window. Obviously showing it was a discrepency between monitor display calibration and overlay display settings. However in Vegas my captures look exactly like they do from within Vegas's preview window.

September 11th, 2003, 08:37 AM	#1038
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	it depends on the network and what theyre requirements are. But broadcast safe colour is a legal requirement now. About 15 years ago i remember watching tv and the ads would come on and bang, half the audio was washed out in buzz evertime white came on screen. Vegas has a broadcast safe filter which has templates for settings pertaining to where you are geographically in the world. i would suggest you use these. However as your doing a commercial for broadcast use, i would strongly suggest you get in touch with the stations and find out what they require. they might prefer to use their own. Im no expert in this as i dont usually work outside my little world, but im sure there are afew people here who can assist you with this query as for vectorscopes, these allow you to view the colour range and together with the colour corection, allow for precise colour reprocessing

September 11th, 2003, 10:05 AM	#1040
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Are there any books or literature that describe how exactly to use them? Also where is the broadcast safe filters? What do they do- simply tone down saturations and bright colors to bring them into the broadcast safe spectrum. Lastly from the way you described it broadcast safe colors were enforce specifically because of audio distortion...do I have this correct?

September 11th, 2003, 10:06 AM	#1041
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Uninstall Vegas 3.0.

September 11th, 2003, 10:12 AM	#1042
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Oh jeez I didn't even know there WAS a 1.5. Is it an upgrade or do I have to uninstall it completly and install 1.5 fresh? Still with the sync tool it leaves the audio of the top clip in place when syncing...and I made extra sure all clips and their audio were selected.

September 11th, 2003, 10:31 AM	#1044
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I'll send you 1.5 with the proper install info.

September 11th, 2003, 10:38 AM	#1046
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Here is a list of fixes made to Excalibur from the initial release to version 1.5. Version 1.0b 5/12/2003 1. Corrected problem reading the Marker Interval from the INI file. Version 1.5 6/12/2003 Excalibur now requires Vegas 4.0c to run 1. Leave Holes may now be turned off in Multi-Cam Wizard even if effects have been added. 2. Eliminated possibility of duplicate nodes in Voice Over Wizard. 3. Now sets the default point in Velocity Wizard instead of creating a second point. 4. Sync Wizard is no longer Case-Sensitive. 5. Multi-Cam Wizard is no longer Case-Sensitive. 6. Multi-Cam Wizard now works correctly with Non-SMPTE rulers. 7. Multi-Cam Wizard "Dissolve By Default" option added (Requires "C" (i.e. "MC") for cut) 8. Voice-Over Wizard new option to Remove Previous Volume Adjustments. 9. Multi-Cam Wizard new option to alternate between two cameras without naming each marker. 10. Corrected problem reading Gap Dissolve from the INI file. 11. Gap Wizard now works when items are at the beginning of the timeline. 12. Gap Wizard now adds dissolves on cuts even when "Maintain Original Overlaps" is checked while allowing true overlaps to remain. 13. Corrected problem where Multi-Cam Wizard could skip moving a clip to the "Master" track. 14. Fade Wizard now has an option to change only the front fade or change only the end fade. 15. Corrected problem reading Fade Wizard options from the INI file. 16. Corrected problem not doing a first dissolve. 17. Corrected problem doing one and a half on the second dissolve.

September 11th, 2003, 10:40 AM	#1047
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Still with the sync tool it leaves the audio of the top clip in place when syncing...and I made extra sure all clips and their audio were selected. -->>> Sound like it could be an upper/lower case issue. Version 1.5 should fix this for you.

September 11th, 2003, 11:00 AM	#1048
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	I don't know anything about the Vegas filters, but I happen to know what legal colors are...Analog TV broadcasting means that the transmitter radiates amplitude modulated HF signals. This means for that the amplitude of the carrier (HF signal) is being changed in accordance to the video amplitude. NTSC uses "negative modulation" meaning that the brightest signal parts result in the lowest amplitudes. Because of the way audio is added (FM moulated carrier) and regenerated in the receivers (intercarrier), it turns out that the lowest value of the transmitted carrier must be above 10% in order to let the intercarrier demodulation at the receiver side work flawlessly (no rattle,buzz..). This means that the signals which are fed into the modulator at the transmitter side need to have limited amplitudes. Knowing that luma and chroma signals are being summed up before modulation, it's luma AND chroma(color) which need to be limited below a given level. Some of the summed up luma/chroma combinations can generate signals which have amplitudes which would end up in "overmodulation" (<10%) even when the luma (=B&W part) is perfectly within the limits. Those chroma signals which would cause this overmodulation in combination with legal luma signals are called "illegal colors". I suppose Vegas clips or indicates those unwanted combinations.

September 11th, 2003, 11:13 AM	#1049
Rob Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 473	Andre I sure am glad there are guys like you out there that understand that stuff! I got a headache just reading it!!!

September 11th, 2003, 02:24 PM	#1050
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	in my best Homer Simpson voice Ahhhhhhhh, OK.