Vegas Video discussions from 2003

Andrew Petrie · July 28th, 2003, 01:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Nigel Moore : Some parts of its business are doing worse than others. With a portfolio as broad as Sony's that shouldn't come as a surprise. Looks like the pain is in the consumer products division though. -->>>

There's some Dilbertian in there somewhere.... "The consumers need to be replaced"...

Glen Elliott · July 28th, 2003, 08:11 PM

Just started my first full project in the Vegas workflow *wish me luck* I figured it's the only way I'm going to learn, and besides once I get my feet wet I can better formulate questions as I'll run into problems and/or questions only as I actually use the product.

Started capturing footage from my most recent wedding tonight. Couple of questions regarding Vegas Capture:

1. Is it ok (if I'm choosing not to capture the entire tape) when I view the footage to simply hit "record" when I see the spot I want to start recording? I ask because the manual says to cue up the tape and hit either stop or pause before hitting capture tape.
I found myself treating it like Premiere and simply hitting the record button as it's playing through in the middle of a clip.

2. I noticed two oddites when I start and stop recording clips. First I notice the picture color shifts as soon as I hit record. Is this normal? It becomes much brighter and a bit blurrier looking. It's nice and sharp with rich colors while playing back footage from the camer in Vegas Capture but it shifts as soon as I hit record.
The second odditie is audio. I notice my audio skips really fast when I hit play after the camera has been stopped. Almost like a machine gun it skips so fast....only lasts for the first few seconds. It maybe the IEEE trying to catch up to the data stream after hitting play again- I just figured I'd ask.
Another audio odditie I noticed is crackling and poping in my audio playback while capturing. Oddly enough when I play it back on the timeline after capturing the pops aren't there but the audio sound horrible while capturing. Is this normal as well?

3 Do I have to change any presets prior to capturing. I didn't I just made sure sceen detection was turned on and started capturing. I didn't know if I should have tweaked any settings by way of capture codec or anything. I'm assuming it defaults to the one I should use- vegas codec...right?

4. Lastly, when I add a long clip to the timeline I noticed small downward white triangles at the bottom of the clip in the timeline, spaced evenly throught the clip. Does anyone know what these tiny white triangle markers are and what they designate? They aren't keyframes because I didn't add any effects to the clips, and the ones I'm talking about are much smaller. I can post a screen capture if no one knows what I'm talking about.

Thanks in advance- and I appologize if some of these are idiotic questions.

Edward Troxel · July 28th, 2003, 10:26 PM

#1: Yes, it is OK. I normally scan the tape to find the sections I want via timecode and use Advanced Capture to batch capture only those sections. However, your method should work fine.

#2: I believe that is normal. This would be caused by capture shifting it's "job" to capturing instead of displaying. In other words, sacrifice some display quality in order to capture correctly.

#3: About the only preset that needs to be changed is the capture location. Personally, I leave scene detection turned off using batch capture instead.

#4: Not sure what the triangles are unless you are sizing the clip larger than it actually is???

Glen Elliott · July 29th, 2003, 04:20 AM

What benefit is there to batch capturing? What'st the principal behind that- watching the footage and marking in and out points of the footage you want- and then automating the capture after going thru? Wouldn't that take longer? I figured I could get the stuff I want the first pass through?

I also noticed this morning while going back to get this screen capture for you that the clips that I had at stop first prior to hitting record glitch a bit for the first second or so. Glitch meaning have visual blips- I can post a screen capture of this as well if need be. It seemed the ones I captured while already playing didn't have this. I'm only assuming it may be because of the latency between the camera and capturing. The camera can roll fast enough once the capture starts. Though I don't know why that would cause visual artifacts at the beginning of the clip?

Anyway here's a screen capture of the downward white traingles on my video clip....
http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/Laze...%20capture.jpg

Will Fastie · July 29th, 2003, 07:52 AM

As Don points out, Sony is still paying the bills, including the cash money to Sonic for its software assets.

I figure Sony sees some upside to these products and I'm sure it won't hesitate to invest in anything that will produce a profit, regardless of what's happening in the rest of the company.

Edward Troxel · July 29th, 2003, 08:36 AM

I have the little triangles, too - but mine are black. Not sure their purpose or meaning.

As for the batch capture: After recording on the tape, it is at the end. I put the tape into the deck, and note the END time and press PLAY REWIND and view the footage BACKWARDS in fast forward speed. I then note locate where sections change and note those times (I also write down events within those times).

Using a wedding as an example, maybe the first 40 minutes of the tape is the ceremony, this is followed by 15 minutes of stuff that happens after the ceremony and before the reception, and then 20 minutes of reception. During the rewind, I note those 3 sections and set up batch capture for these sections. I then end up with THREE files on the hard drive (even though the second two sections would have many different "clips").

It's just my means of organization.

Glen Elliott · July 29th, 2003, 09:56 AM

So your worklow entails that you have larger more drawn out clips rather than multible smaller ones. For example, you'll capture all your footage from the actuall ceremony as 1 long clip? What do you do from there- splice it up with the trim tool or manually on the timeline? I'm just trying to get into my own groove as far as workflow is concerned- I'm still sorta a fish out of water beings I have premiere 6.0 practically engrained in me.

How about those blibs I was getting in the very beginning of some captured clips? What do you think they could be? I'm assuming (and I say assume because I can't remember exactly which clips I actually captured while the play head was at stop) that the clips with the visual blips are the ones I captured when the footage wasn't playing prior to hitting record. It could be caused from the IEEE trying to sync up with the data being sent....a latency issue perhaps? I'm wondering if visual blips/artifacts can be created from such a thing. I dont believe it's in my source footage on tape or they'd show up throught the clip...not just in the very first second or so of the capture.

Lastly how about the audio crackles? Do you get them when monitoring your audio while capturing? I'm running Vegas capture with the preview screen at 100%, can this cause any problems (like the audio pops I'm hearing) making it draw the preview screen at full size?

Thanks again for all your input, your knowledge is a great asset to me.

Edward Troxel · July 29th, 2003, 10:22 AM

I break the larger clip up on the timeline. Now, I have started using the Extract Good Clips tool in my newest script in some cases. (Makes it REAL easy to pick out the good sections and discard the trash) Frequently I have the same scene from multiple cameras so I keep them close to the same location on the timeline.

Yes, my audio stutters during capture. I don't care what happens to the video display or audio while capturing as long as I get a good capture. (I usually look at the monitor and listen to the monitor connected to the deck instead of the computer anyway.)

Glen Elliott · July 29th, 2003, 10:30 AM

Ok 2 down one to go- how about the blips I was seeing at the very beginning of some captured clips. Would hitting record from the playhead being in stop cause enough delay to disrupt the video in the first second of the clip while capturing?

PS I'm ordering Excalibur and the Training Vid this week. I'm hooked on traning "videos"- even though I read the manual it still helps to "see" someone go through the workflow.

Thanks again for all your help!

Edward Troxel · July 29th, 2003, 10:51 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Ok 2 down one to go- how about the blips I was seeing at the very beginning of some captured clips. Would hitting record from the playhead being in stop cause enough delay to disrupt the video in the first second of the clip while capturing? -->>>

YES

Glen Elliott · July 29th, 2003, 12:10 PM

Thanks,I was concerned when I saw those visual anormalities in the beginnings of my clips.
Again thank you for your help and swift replies. I knew you'd be perfect for moderating this board.

Darrell Sullivan · July 30th, 2003, 06:00 AM

I am trying out NLEs to see which one will work for me and right now I am trying out Vegas.

The first thing that I am trying to do is to edit together footage of a wedding taken from two cameras. Based on what I have read in the manual it would appear that the first thing for me to do is setup an A/B roll on the main track. The problem I have is in synchronizing the two tracks. I want to use the photographer's flash at the kiss to align the two tracks. This occurs at 00;31;15;12 on the A roll and 00;55;23;10 on the B roll. Is there any kind of function that allows you to supply a position for the different clips and then slides the clips appropriately along the timeline to synchronize them? If not, what is the easiest way to go about this?

Thanks for the help.

Edward Troxel · July 30th, 2003, 08:01 AM

First of all, you DON'T need an "A/B" roll. Just use TWO tracks.

To make things simple, look at issue #9 of the Vegas Tips, Tricks, and Scripts Newsletter. It deals specifically with multicam edits.

To simplify the editing process, you may also want to look at Excalibur

Darrell Sullivan · July 30th, 2003, 09:52 AM

Thanks for the link Edward. I took a look at it and I am a bit surprised at how involved it is. I am glad I only have two cameras to merge.

Is there any kind of tool that would jut play the tracks and let you click on the one to begin using? Something like a director standing at a panel of monitors and choosing which camera's angle to switch to during a live event? Maybe that is too simple. It just seems odd to have to go in and cut the footage out of a #1 and a #2 camera if you want to see the #3.

I will look at Excalibur, maybe it offers something along those lines.

Edward Troxel · July 30th, 2003, 09:57 AM

Yes - Excalibur

You just add markers to the timeline indicate which camera to switch to. When done, you run excalibur and it will create the mix for you.

Excalibur also provides a tool to simplify syncing of the cameras as well.

Read the article carefully: It gives two methods of syncing and four methods of multi-cam editing.

July 28th, 2003, 01:51 PM	#646
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	<<<-- Originally posted by Nigel Moore : Some parts of its business are doing worse than others. With a portfolio as broad as Sony's that shouldn't come as a surprise. Looks like the pain is in the consumer products division though. -->>> There's some Dilbertian in there somewhere.... "The consumers need to be replaced"... __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

July 28th, 2003, 08:11 PM	#647
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Capturing in Vegas possibly newbie questions Just started my first full project in the Vegas workflow wish me luck I figured it's the only way I'm going to learn, and besides once I get my feet wet I can better formulate questions as I'll run into problems and/or questions only as I actually use the product. Started capturing footage from my most recent wedding tonight. Couple of questions regarding Vegas Capture: 1. Is it ok (if I'm choosing not to capture the entire tape) when I view the footage to simply hit "record" when I see the spot I want to start recording? I ask because the manual says to cue up the tape and hit either stop or pause before hitting capture tape. I found myself treating it like Premiere and simply hitting the record button as it's playing through in the middle of a clip. 2. I noticed two oddites when I start and stop recording clips. First I notice the picture color shifts as soon as I hit record. Is this normal? It becomes much brighter and a bit blurrier looking. It's nice and sharp with rich colors while playing back footage from the camer in Vegas Capture but it shifts as soon as I hit record. The second odditie is audio. I notice my audio skips really fast when I hit play after the camera has been stopped. Almost like a machine gun it skips so fast....only lasts for the first few seconds. It maybe the IEEE trying to catch up to the data stream after hitting play again- I just figured I'd ask. Another audio odditie I noticed is crackling and poping in my audio playback while capturing. Oddly enough when I play it back on the timeline after capturing the pops aren't there but the audio sound horrible while capturing. Is this normal as well? 3 Do I have to change any presets prior to capturing. I didn't I just made sure sceen detection was turned on and started capturing. I didn't know if I should have tweaked any settings by way of capture codec or anything. I'm assuming it defaults to the one I should use- vegas codec...right? 4. Lastly, when I add a long clip to the timeline I noticed small downward white triangles at the bottom of the clip in the timeline, spaced evenly throught the clip. Does anyone know what these tiny white triangle markers are and what they designate? They aren't keyframes because I didn't add any effects to the clips, and the ones I'm talking about are much smaller. I can post a screen capture if no one knows what I'm talking about. Thanks in advance- and I appologize if some of these are idiotic questions.

July 30th, 2003, 06:00 AM	#657
Darrell Sullivan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	Newbie Trying Out Vegas I am trying out NLEs to see which one will work for me and right now I am trying out Vegas. The first thing that I am trying to do is to edit together footage of a wedding taken from two cameras. Based on what I have read in the manual it would appear that the first thing for me to do is setup an A/B roll on the main track. The problem I have is in synchronizing the two tracks. I want to use the photographer's flash at the kiss to align the two tracks. This occurs at 00;31;15;12 on the A roll and 00;55;23;10 on the B roll. Is there any kind of function that allows you to supply a position for the different clips and then slides the clips appropriately along the timeline to synchronize them? If not, what is the easiest way to go about this? Thanks for the help.

July 30th, 2003, 09:52 AM	#659
Darrell Sullivan Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 42	Many thanks Thanks for the link Edward. I took a look at it and I am a bit surprised at how involved it is. I am glad I only have two cameras to merge. Is there any kind of tool that would jut play the tracks and let you click on the one to begin using? Something like a director standing at a panel of monitors and choosing which camera's angle to switch to during a live event? Maybe that is too simple. It just seems odd to have to go in and cut the footage out of a #1 and a #2 camera if you want to see the #3. I will look at Excalibur, maybe it offers something along those lines.

July 28th, 2003, 10:26 PM	#648
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	#1: Yes, it is OK. I normally scan the tape to find the sections I want via timecode and use Advanced Capture to batch capture only those sections. However, your method should work fine. #2: I believe that is normal. This would be caused by capture shifting it's "job" to capturing instead of displaying. In other words, sacrifice some display quality in order to capture correctly. #3: About the only preset that needs to be changed is the capture location. Personally, I leave scene detection turned off using batch capture instead. #4: Not sure what the triangles are unless you are sizing the clip larger than it actually is???

July 29th, 2003, 04:20 AM	#649
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	What benefit is there to batch capturing? What'st the principal behind that- watching the footage and marking in and out points of the footage you want- and then automating the capture after going thru? Wouldn't that take longer? I figured I could get the stuff I want the first pass through? I also noticed this morning while going back to get this screen capture for you that the clips that I had at stop first prior to hitting record glitch a bit for the first second or so. Glitch meaning have visual blips- I can post a screen capture of this as well if need be. It seemed the ones I captured while already playing didn't have this. I'm only assuming it may be because of the latency between the camera and capturing. The camera can roll fast enough once the capture starts. Though I don't know why that would cause visual artifacts at the beginning of the clip? Anyway here's a screen capture of the downward white traingles on my video clip.... http://www.mazdamp3.com/members/Laze...%20capture.jpg

July 29th, 2003, 07:52 AM	#650
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	As Don points out, Sony is still paying the bills, including the cash money to Sonic for its software assets. I figure Sony sees some upside to these products and I'm sure it won't hesitate to invest in anything that will produce a profit, regardless of what's happening in the rest of the company.

July 29th, 2003, 08:36 AM	#651
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I have the little triangles, too - but mine are black. Not sure their purpose or meaning. As for the batch capture: After recording on the tape, it is at the end. I put the tape into the deck, and note the END time and press PLAY REWIND and view the footage BACKWARDS in fast forward speed. I then note locate where sections change and note those times (I also write down events within those times). Using a wedding as an example, maybe the first 40 minutes of the tape is the ceremony, this is followed by 15 minutes of stuff that happens after the ceremony and before the reception, and then 20 minutes of reception. During the rewind, I note those 3 sections and set up batch capture for these sections. I then end up with THREE files on the hard drive (even though the second two sections would have many different "clips"). It's just my means of organization.

July 29th, 2003, 09:56 AM	#652
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	So your worklow entails that you have larger more drawn out clips rather than multible smaller ones. For example, you'll capture all your footage from the actuall ceremony as 1 long clip? What do you do from there- splice it up with the trim tool or manually on the timeline? I'm just trying to get into my own groove as far as workflow is concerned- I'm still sorta a fish out of water beings I have premiere 6.0 practically engrained in me. How about those blibs I was getting in the very beginning of some captured clips? What do you think they could be? I'm assuming (and I say assume because I can't remember exactly which clips I actually captured while the play head was at stop) that the clips with the visual blips are the ones I captured when the footage wasn't playing prior to hitting record. It could be caused from the IEEE trying to sync up with the data being sent....a latency issue perhaps? I'm wondering if visual blips/artifacts can be created from such a thing. I dont believe it's in my source footage on tape or they'd show up throught the clip...not just in the very first second or so of the capture. Lastly how about the audio crackles? Do you get them when monitoring your audio while capturing? I'm running Vegas capture with the preview screen at 100%, can this cause any problems (like the audio pops I'm hearing) making it draw the preview screen at full size? Thanks again for all your input, your knowledge is a great asset to me.

July 29th, 2003, 10:22 AM	#653
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	I break the larger clip up on the timeline. Now, I have started using the Extract Good Clips tool in my newest script in some cases. (Makes it REAL easy to pick out the good sections and discard the trash) Frequently I have the same scene from multiple cameras so I keep them close to the same location on the timeline. Yes, my audio stutters during capture. I don't care what happens to the video display or audio while capturing as long as I get a good capture. (I usually look at the monitor and listen to the monitor connected to the deck instead of the computer anyway.)

July 29th, 2003, 10:30 AM	#654
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Ok 2 down one to go- how about the blips I was seeing at the very beginning of some captured clips. Would hitting record from the playhead being in stop cause enough delay to disrupt the video in the first second of the clip while capturing? PS I'm ordering Excalibur and the Training Vid this week. I'm hooked on traning "videos"- even though I read the manual it still helps to "see" someone go through the workflow. Thanks again for all your help!

July 29th, 2003, 10:51 AM	#655
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	<<<-- Originally posted by Glen Elliott : Ok 2 down one to go- how about the blips I was seeing at the very beginning of some captured clips. Would hitting record from the playhead being in stop cause enough delay to disrupt the video in the first second of the clip while capturing? -->>> YES

July 29th, 2003, 12:10 PM	#656
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Thanks,I was concerned when I saw those visual anormalities in the beginnings of my clips. Again thank you for your help and swift replies. I knew you'd be perfect for moderating this board.

July 30th, 2003, 08:01 AM	#658
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	First of all, you DON'T need an "A/B" roll. Just use TWO tracks. To make things simple, look at issue #9 of the Vegas Tips, Tricks, and Scripts Newsletter. It deals specifically with multicam edits. To simplify the editing process, you may also want to look at Excalibur

July 30th, 2003, 09:57 AM	#660
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Yes - Excalibur You just add markers to the timeline indicate which camera to switch to. When done, you run excalibur and it will create the mix for you. Excalibur also provides a tool to simplify syncing of the cameras as well. Read the article carefully: It gives two methods of syncing and four methods of multi-cam editing.