Vegas Video discussions from 2003

Will Fastie · May 2nd, 2003, 02:05 PM

This really doesn't sound good to me. Sony isn't a software company.

I think it makes sense to get its hands on Video Factory and add DVD authoring. That could replace the mishmash of stuff currently shipped with Vaio Digital Studio models and make them even more attractive.

But Vegas? I shudder at the thought. Hard to imagine Sony eating Adobe's or Avid's or Pinnacle's or Apple's lunch.

Maybe I'll change my tune when I see what happens to my SoFo stock. The market seems to have liked the news today -- SoFo hit $0.59.

Carl Slawinski · May 2nd, 2003, 02:16 PM

Small companies usually do 1 of 2 things.

1. Become big companies

2. Get bought by a big company

That's just the way it works.

SOFO was a dot on the map compared to the others in their space.

David Mintzer · May 2nd, 2003, 03:03 PM

Everybody chill----Dr. Dropout of Sony Foundry (LOL) posted over in the manure field that two things should happen very shortly.

1. Next week there should be another update to DVD Architect and Vegas--

2. An announcement as to what the future will bring and it looks damn good---

Now if it was anybody else but the reliable Dr. Dropout then I would be upset---But this guy is right in the heart of Sony Foundry and has always been very reliable---.

I would be willing to wager that the development team stays intact (they must be relieved that a financially solvent company now pays them) and that improvements and evolution will speed up---. THe idiot CEO is gone and I think this is a very positive development.

Bill Ravens · May 2nd, 2003, 03:08 PM

NOTHING is ever free, david. For all that financial support, their soul has been sold to the devil. There will be a price to be paid...and I'm not talking $$$$. Been there, myself. It's always possible that things can get better, but, so's world peace. Chance of it happening...nil. Customer support will eventually go away, as will listening to their marketplace. Which by the way, is the small Indie maker and home pro. Sony will cast its eyes on bigger fish. I'm just a small one.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · May 2nd, 2003, 03:43 PM

Agreement here--this does not bode well for the development of the Sonic Foundry product line.

A shame all around.

What--couldn't we have scraped together $18 mil and bought Sonic Foundry ourselves?

Will Fastie · May 2nd, 2003, 04:50 PM

Just to clarify, Sony paid $18 million cash and assumed some liabilities (value unknown) to acquire the software, not the company. SoFo goes its own way. Sony owns Vegas et al.

From what I've read so far, the same software team will be involved going forward. Who knows for how long, but I guess the "chill" advice is warranted for at least the near future.

David Mintzer · May 2nd, 2003, 10:09 PM

How can you say that Sony doesn't care for what consumers want---Have you ever heard of the Walkman, the Wega, the Handy Cam, the Vaio---what about the Playstation, the whole line of DV camcorders etc------

I think it best that people wait and see what Sony does with this gem they have purchased.

Jeff Donald · May 3rd, 2003, 06:48 AM

VV users should count their blessings. Sonic could not have continued very much longer. It's losses were mounting and in a slow economy few companies are buying. If another software/video company had bought VV it would have been absorbed into their present software (Premiere). Apple, who is cash rich (4+ billion) could have bought them and promptly discontinue windows support and merge it into existing products.

Sony may be the lesser of the evils. It could use a product like VV and may support continued expansion of the product line (VV lite). Apple has a three tier product line (iMovie, FC Express, FCP) that is proving very successful strategy. Sony may try to emulate Apple's success and i wish them well.

Bill Ravens · May 3rd, 2003, 06:54 AM

well, it's a good fortune for Sofo, for the time being. Unfortunately, I suspect the market niche that V4 occupies is not the niche Sony has planned. So, while the technology will live on, I'm afraid that the current user will lose out. We may see a good product thru the next upgrade, but, I betcha it will begin a major evolution away from its current market niche after that. And that makes me disappointed to lose an app that works the way it's supposed to.

Will Fastie · May 3rd, 2003, 07:09 AM

I agree with Alex that Sony sells products in spite of itself. Memory Stick is my favorite example, a standard in Sony's eyes but in no other that ends up marring great products like the Clie.

On the other hand, it's hard to challenge David's point when I have a house full of Sony stuff. I eventually bought a Vaio for my wife's digital photography. I have high praise for Vaio support. When I was ready to move the Vaio to Windows XP, Sony had everything ready on its Web site to make that transition smooth.

So why do I agree with Alex? Because that XP transition was generic support, done (i.e., manufactured) once for all Vaios. Trying to get any kind of individualized support out of Sony is like pulling teeth. My Sony DRU-120A DVD writer is a good product, but I've had some troubles with it. Sony's help was pretty much limited to telling me to reinstall software (all third-party) and use only the versions specified on its Web site, that it could not be responsible for writing failures from other software, and then when I'd exhausted their patience with repeated calls, an offer to replace the device even though it wasn't clear that there was a hardware problem (in other words, getting me to go away).

Sony makes a lot of hardware and this kind of support is the result. What will happen when Sony is a software vendor?

Don Bloom · May 3rd, 2003, 07:16 AM

Gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen and ladies too. Calm down. Just because a BIG guy bought out a little guy that many of us like and use doesn't mean doom and death to the little guy, at least not as yet. If Sony hadn't bought SoFo, or at least the line of product they did, did they, SoFo, have the resources to continue in the marketplace as a viable company for the next 5-10 years? Maybe, maybe not. The point is as someone said earlier, the big buy the little. That's called life in business. They would not have bought them if the product line was trash and nobody used it, but, with the customer base of the various products and the profitability that can be there, it to me is a great business move. Will customer support go the way of smoke signals, perhaps, but Vegas products have some of the most active and informative forums around. Will customer support go away tomorrow, a big NO. I don't see any reason to panic nor do I see any reason to rush out and buy something else. Hell, United Airlines went BK and they're still flying and will continue to do so for a very long time, so what's the difference?
Why the support could even be better, they might give us an even better program, they could give us all free beer and donuts with our next purchase (that's for you Harry:)) or they could close the doors.
In any case there really is nothing we can do about it so why sweat it? Life is far too short to worry about whether or not the company that manufactured my NLE will be around in the next 3 years, I would like to think we all have better things to worry about and concern ourselves with, so lets get on with editing with a good tool from SoFo. BTW, if they closed today, would your Vegas Video or any other software from SoFo suddenly stop working?
'nuff said :)

Richard Alvarez · May 3rd, 2003, 07:21 AM

I think the first most likely scenario, is for Sony to bundle the software with their hardware, to enhance sales. Look for that to happen within the month.

Bill Ravens · May 3rd, 2003, 07:23 AM

a simplistic view, at best, Don. With HD editting on the very near horizon, the needs of pro-sumer users like myself will be changing very soon. This means that V4 will quickly become outdated and unable to match the capabilities of other NLE products. Now, I don't doubt that Sony will maintain the capabilities, but, at what price? The cost point may well go up, the ability of Sony to read the pro-sumer (as opposed to the fast buck consumer) market and provide what we need, is subject to question. In terms of keeping my own business competitive with a product that keeps me producing with a minimum of hassle and with professional features at a price that doesn't overburden my overhead costs, I'm worried about what application I will turn to. Maybe it will continue to be Vegas, maybe not. As a business owner, I can't afford to bury my head in the sand and pretend that everything is hunky dory in Oz.

Don Bloom · May 3rd, 2003, 07:38 AM

Bill,
I'm not suggesting anyone do that. (put their head in the sand)Actually, I'm a little concerned as well as I just recently converted to V4 and like the product a lot, BUT, perhaps I look at things a little differently. 1) I can't change anything any company big or small is going to do so I can't worry about what they do decide to do 2) If they closed today, I along with all other users will still have a working viable product to use until we found something else 3)For myself and only for myself, I'm not worried about 24P or HD or anything else all I need is an NLE that will allow me to continue to edit the 40 or 50 weddings a year that I do, in the style that my clients want and to produce the corporate work that my clients desire and hire me to do.
I've been around business far too long to get upset when this company buys that one and so on down the line.
Perhaps it's because I know that in about 1 or 2 more years I will be hanging up the hat so to speak BUT in any case, can you or I change what SONY might or might not do, especially since we have no idea what they're going to do and I for one hate to ASS/U/ME anything.

Adrian Douglas · May 3rd, 2003, 08:05 AM

Instead of everyone looking on the dark side of all of this, maybe, as Jeff suggested, Sony is going to have a shot at providing a decent PC based prosumer editing system. We all know the Sony XPRI high end NLE and maybe SOny is trying to offer something for the little guy. VV4 has proved to be a sucessful and popular NLE with a great easy to use interface, this bundled with some dedicated SOny hardware could be a godsend to the guys without the bucks for the XPRI.

You can all sit back and say I'm naive, maybe I am, but lets just wait and see before casting our stones.

May 2nd, 2003, 03:43 PM	#260
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Agreement here--this does not bode well for the development of the Sonic Foundry product line. A shame all around. What--couldn't we have scraped together $18 mil and bought Sonic Foundry ourselves? __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 2nd, 2003, 04:50 PM	#261
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Sony bought Assets, not Company Just to clarify, Sony paid $18 million cash and assumed some liabilities (value unknown) to acquire the software, *not* the company. SoFo goes its own way. Sony owns Vegas et al. From what I've read so far, the same software team will be involved going forward. Who knows for how long, but I guess the "chill" advice is warranted for at least the near future.

May 3rd, 2003, 06:48 AM	#263
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	VV users should count their blessings. Sonic could not have continued very much longer. It's losses were mounting and in a slow economy few companies are buying. If another software/video company had bought VV it would have been absorbed into their present software (Premiere). Apple, who is cash rich (4+ billion) could have bought them and promptly discontinue windows support and merge it into existing products. Sony may be the lesser of the evils. It could use a product like VV and may support continued expansion of the product line (VV lite). Apple has a three tier product line (iMovie, FC Express, FCP) that is proving very successful strategy. Sony may try to emulate Apple's success and i wish them well. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 3rd, 2003, 08:05 AM	#270
Adrian Douglas Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Chigasaki, Japan. Posts: 1,660	Instead of everyone looking on the dark side of all of this, maybe, as Jeff suggested, Sony is going to have a shot at providing a decent PC based prosumer editing system. We all know the Sony XPRI high end NLE and maybe SOny is trying to offer something for the little guy. VV4 has proved to be a sucessful and popular NLE with a great easy to use interface, this bundled with some dedicated SOny hardware could be a godsend to the guys without the bucks for the XPRI. You can all sit back and say I'm naive, maybe I am, but lets just wait and see before casting our stones. __________________ Adrian DVInfo.net Search for quick answers Where to buy? From the best in the business...DVInfo.net sponsors

May 2nd, 2003, 02:05 PM	#256
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	This really doesn't sound good to me. Sony isn't a software company. I think it makes sense to get its hands on Video Factory and add DVD authoring. That could replace the mishmash of stuff currently shipped with Vaio Digital Studio models and make them even more attractive. But Vegas? I shudder at the thought. Hard to imagine Sony eating Adobe's or Avid's or Pinnacle's or Apple's lunch. Maybe I'll change my tune when I see what happens to my SoFo stock. The market seems to have liked the news today -- SoFo hit $0.59.

May 2nd, 2003, 02:16 PM	#257
Carl Slawinski Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Mount Prospect, IL Posts: 67	Small companies usually do 1 of 2 things. 1. Become big companies 2. Get bought by a big company That's just the way it works. SOFO was a dot on the map compared to the others in their space.

May 2nd, 2003, 03:03 PM	#258
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	Everybody chill----Dr. Dropout of Sony Foundry (LOL) posted over in the manure field that two things should happen very shortly. 1. Next week there should be another update to DVD Architect and Vegas-- 2. An announcement as to what the future will bring and it looks damn good--- Now if it was anybody else but the reliable Dr. Dropout then I would be upset---But this guy is right in the heart of Sony Foundry and has always been very reliable---. I would be willing to wager that the development team stays intact (they must be relieved that a financially solvent company now pays them) and that improvements and evolution will speed up---. THe idiot CEO is gone and I think this is a very positive development.

May 2nd, 2003, 03:08 PM	#259
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	NOTHING is ever free, david. For all that financial support, their soul has been sold to the devil. There will be a price to be paid...and I'm not talking $$$$. Been there, myself. It's always possible that things can get better, but, so's world peace. Chance of it happening...nil. Customer support will eventually go away, as will listening to their marketplace. Which by the way, is the small Indie maker and home pro. Sony will cast its eyes on bigger fish. I'm just a small one.

May 2nd, 2003, 10:09 PM	#262
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	How can you say that Sony doesn't care for what consumers want---Have you ever heard of the Walkman, the Wega, the Handy Cam, the Vaio---what about the Playstation, the whole line of DV camcorders etc------ I think it best that people wait and see what Sony does with this gem they have purchased.

May 3rd, 2003, 06:54 AM	#264
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	well, it's a good fortune for Sofo, for the time being. Unfortunately, I suspect the market niche that V4 occupies is not the niche Sony has planned. So, while the technology will live on, I'm afraid that the current user will lose out. We may see a good product thru the next upgrade, but, I betcha it will begin a major evolution away from its current market niche after that. And that makes me disappointed to lose an app that works the way it's supposed to.

May 3rd, 2003, 07:09 AM	#265
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	I agree with Alex that Sony sells products in spite of itself. Memory Stick is my favorite example, a standard in Sony's eyes but in no other that ends up marring great products like the Clie. On the other hand, it's hard to challenge David's point when I have a house full of Sony stuff. I eventually bought a Vaio for my wife's digital photography. I have high praise for Vaio support. When I was ready to move the Vaio to Windows XP, Sony had everything ready on its Web site to make that transition smooth. So why do I agree with Alex? Because that XP transition was generic support, done (i.e., manufactured) once for all Vaios. Trying to get any kind of individualized support out of Sony is like pulling teeth. My Sony DRU-120A DVD writer is a good product, but I've had some troubles with it. Sony's help was pretty much limited to telling me to reinstall software (all third-party) and use only the versions specified on its Web site, that it could not be responsible for writing failures from other software, and then when I'd exhausted their patience with repeated calls, an offer to replace the device even though it wasn't clear that there was a hardware problem (in other words, getting me to go away). Sony makes a lot of hardware and this kind of support is the result. What will happen when Sony is a software vendor?

May 3rd, 2003, 07:16 AM	#266
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Gentlemen gentlemen gentlemen and ladies too. Calm down. Just because a BIG guy bought out a little guy that many of us like and use doesn't mean doom and death to the little guy, at least not as yet. If Sony hadn't bought SoFo, or at least the line of product they did, did they, SoFo, have the resources to continue in the marketplace as a viable company for the next 5-10 years? Maybe, maybe not. The point is as someone said earlier, the big buy the little. That's called life in business. They would not have bought them if the product line was trash and nobody used it, but, with the customer base of the various products and the profitability that can be there, it to me is a great business move. Will customer support go the way of smoke signals, perhaps, but Vegas products have some of the most active and informative forums around. Will customer support go away tomorrow, a big NO. I don't see any reason to panic nor do I see any reason to rush out and buy something else. Hell, United Airlines went BK and they're still flying and will continue to do so for a very long time, so what's the difference? Why the support could even be better, they might give us an even better program, they could give us all free beer and donuts with our next purchase (that's for you Harry:)) or they could close the doors. In any case there really is nothing we can do about it so why sweat it? Life is far too short to worry about whether or not the company that manufactured my NLE will be around in the next 3 years, I would like to think we all have better things to worry about and concern ourselves with, so lets get on with editing with a good tool from SoFo. BTW, if they closed today, would your Vegas Video or any other software from SoFo suddenly stop working? 'nuff said :)

May 3rd, 2003, 07:21 AM	#267
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I think the first most likely scenario, is for Sony to bundle the software with their hardware, to enhance sales. Look for that to happen within the month.

May 3rd, 2003, 07:23 AM	#268
Bill Ravens Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: santa fe, nm Posts: 3,264 Images: 10	a simplistic view, at best, Don. With HD editting on the very near horizon, the needs of pro-sumer users like myself will be changing very soon. This means that V4 will quickly become outdated and unable to match the capabilities of other NLE products. Now, I don't doubt that Sony will maintain the capabilities, but, at what price? The cost point may well go up, the ability of Sony to read the pro-sumer (as opposed to the fast buck consumer) market and provide what we need, is subject to question. In terms of keeping my own business competitive with a product that keeps me producing with a minimum of hassle and with professional features at a price that doesn't overburden my overhead costs, I'm worried about what application I will turn to. Maybe it will continue to be Vegas, maybe not. As a business owner, I can't afford to bury my head in the sand and pretend that everything is hunky dory in Oz.

May 3rd, 2003, 07:38 AM	#269
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Bill, I'm not suggesting anyone do that. (put their head in the sand)Actually, I'm a little concerned as well as I just recently converted to V4 and like the product a lot, BUT, perhaps I look at things a little differently. 1) I can't change anything any company big or small is going to do so I can't worry about what they do decide to do 2) If they closed today, I along with all other users will still have a working viable product to use until we found something else 3)For myself and only for myself, I'm not worried about 24P or HD or anything else all I need is an NLE that will allow me to continue to edit the 40 or 50 weddings a year that I do, in the style that my clients want and to produce the corporate work that my clients desire and hire me to do. I've been around business far too long to get upset when this company buys that one and so on down the line. Perhaps it's because I know that in about 1 or 2 more years I will be hanging up the hat so to speak BUT in any case, can you or I change what SONY might or might not do, especially since we have no idea what they're going to do and I for one hate to ASS/U/ME anything.