I believe I made a Stupid mistake!

[Dave Herring]

You got mail, Dude.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Ben, you are WAY overthinking on this.
Call the companies I referred you to. I've used Evatone, ask for Ron Dabbs, he'll point you in the right direction.
You can:
1. Send a camcorder with the HDV tape and component cables and they can dub from that. (not my first choice)
2. You can create a 4:2:2 YUV file, store it on a hard drive, and ship them that drive.

They'll print it to HDCAM for you and ship you the tape. End of story.
In SLC, UT, a 48 minute dub to HDCAM is 300.00 plus tape and tax. Tape is 55.00 in the quantity we buy(64HDL), but typically is 75.00 or so per. Cost may vary in your neck of the woods.

[Ben Chancey]

DSE,

I really appreciate you putting up with me. I am kind of like a little kid in this. You just have to keep correcting me. I have emailed each place you have suggested accept for EVATONE. I went to Evatones' website and didn't see anything concerning HD only DVD. I guess that is why you said call and ask for Ron Dabbs. I don't feel right asking questions on a board until I have done some exhaustive research on my own regarding the info I am looking for. I take every bit of info that is provided to me here and do my best follow through with each lead.

[Joe Carney]

Ben, in Miami there is a company called Cineworks. The can do it, but it may be expensive.
phone is 305-754-7501, ask for vinney. He will be talking to his post people about this after 3pm EST.

He mentoned the disk option might be best since they only accept sdi inputs to the deck, they have a teranex box or something to facilitate.

They may be out of your price range, but worth a call.

btw, have you ever seen offshorehunters on Fox sports net?

[Ben Chancey]

Well I just got off the phone with a production facility out of Clearwater, FL and they gave me some ill fated disenheartening news. The gentleman I spoke with was very helpful and was not sure if HDV to DVC Pro HD would be very good. He said since HDV is bastardiz@d it really is not better than DVCPRO progressive because it is 2/3 of the pixels of true HD. He also said when an HD channel looks at the footage they would know that it is not true HD but an upconverted signal. I am believing converting to DVCPRO HD from sony Cineform HD codec may be the reason for poor quality. I also believe converting to the YUV codec as DSE suggested will hopefully allow for much better quality. Someone in one of these posts has already said they have done this and the network QC approved it with flying colors. That is the result I am looking for.

[Joe Carney]

Ben, when I talk to a lot of facilities, they are worried people think that once it's transferred to HDCAM tape it will look like it was shot on a F900. Most of them are just covering their bases and explaining to people that HDV is very compressed compared to HDCAM and you can't recover what isn't there.
If the transfer is done wrong it looks bad. If the original stuff looks bad, it still looks bad and some people blame the transfer facility.

Looks like you might want to take the advice Spot gave about Orlando.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Ben Chancey

Well I just got off the phone with a production facility out of Clearwater, FL and they gave me some ill fated disenheartening news. The gentleman I spoke with was very helpful and was not sure if HDV to DVC Pro HD would be very good. He said since HDV is bastardiz@d it really is not better than DVCPRO progressive because it is 2/3 of the pixels of true HD. He also said when an HD channel looks at the footage they would know that it is not true HD but an upconverted signal. I am believing converting to DVCPRO HD from sony Cineform HD codec may be the reason for poor quality. I also believe converting to the YUV codec as DSE suggested will hopefully allow for much better quality. Someone in one of these posts has already said they have done this and the network QC approved it with flying colors. That is the result I am looking for.

Ben, three words: JUST DO IT!

In other words, you're asking cooks about a recipe. You'll get lots of opinions Just do it, so you know what you're dealing with. Although I don't mind discussing this, it's turning into a broken record at this point. HDV is transferred to HDCAM somewhere, every day. Broadcasters will essentially only take two delivery formats for HD in the US. How *does* all that HDV make it to the air if it's so weak? :-) The answer is, it's transferred to one of two formats. HDCAM is by far more ubiquitous.
The codec won't improve the quality of your vid outside of titles, generated media, etc, it just makes it so that it's compatible with HDCAM. But the upshot of it is, you're spending more time typing than it takes to actually get it done.

Just do it.

[Ash Greyson]

I just talked to a guy who did some stuff for INHD, he said he cut in Vegas, used the codec I linked earlier to output a 4:2:2 file that was dumped to HDCAM by a prod house in LA. He said in the future to try and edit in that codec if possible, he is using Vegas with network rendering so I am not sure how it would work for you...



ash =o

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

The 4:2:2 YUV codec renders just fine in a networked situation, whether you're using GearShift or not.
You don't need GearShift if you're done editing, but you can certainly render to the 4:2:2 YUV codec and store on a drive, send it off (as mentioned earlier) and get your HDCAM sent back to you along with the drive.
You need to have the 4:2:2 file for someone to be able to print it straight to HDCAM; otherwise you'll be likely looking at some other conversion.

[Ben Chancey]

Alright,

Here is the update:

Dave Herring referred me to InterScreen.tv and they said they did not currently have an HDCAM deck but we could use the SDI port as DSE suggested and record it to DVC PRO HD. DSE,I understand exactly what you are saying about me and the broken record. I have called the Network to tell them the wrong package was sent to them and asked if they would send it back. I am waiting to hear back from them. In my haste to get the show done I did not research this HDV to HDCAM=DVC PRO HD part enough and now I am paying for it by looking incompetent. Lesson learned I will grow from it. I have emailed every contact I have been given, except for EVATONE and they are next. DSE the whole project is hinging on your word. I believe HDV converted to HDCAM will the just as beautiful as it was when I printed the HDV master. Everything was crystal clear and the natural close ups we were able to get of 40 pound Redfish with the tails wagging out of the water is phenomenal. I literally could see scales and single drops of water in the footage. I know if I saw this on another show in HD I would be amazed. If the quality of the conversion to either formats is as beautiful as the HDV original footage then I will be more than pleased. I thank you guys for listening and posting in this thread. If I had something working I would drive the 150 miles to Largo or Miami to get it done tomorrow.

[Lance Bachelder]

Ben,

I would do what Douglas suggested the first time and put it on a firewire dirve and bring/ship that to a post house. FORGET the whole DVCPRO HD thing, this is just another format that won't be accepted as a deliverable and you'll have to pay for HDCAM dub from the DVCPRO HD. What we do here in L.A. is render our finished show from Vegas to the codec that the place doing the layback to HDCAM is using.

For instance:

If they have a Final Cut Pro HD system with a Blackmagic Deckling card - I render my show to the Blackmagic codec they suggest (Quicktime codec - free at www.decklink.com) to a portable firewire drive and bring them the drive. They transfer that file to their RAID array, put it on the Final Cut timeline and print to tape (HDCAM). If they have a Kona card I use the AJA codec they suggest (again free Quicktime codec at www.aja.com)

The benefit of rendering from Vegas to the right codec is it is instantly useable by the person doing the layback. If you render to the Sony codec or a codec the post house doesn't use, they will have to convert it and this will cost you money! Look for a post house that has a high end Final Cut Pro system with either of the cards I mentioned (AJA or DECKLINK) and owns a HDCAM deck (again NOT DVCPRO HD). Like Spot said, this process should cost around $300.

You don't need a Teranex box or to pay for any other conversion process - just buy a firewire drive big enough to hold your rendered show and a nice case to ship it back and forth to the post house that can handle this simple workflow (dozens of them here in L.A.). There must be several places in Florida that can do this for you - what about Cineworks Lab in Miami? if not send it to Atlanta.

Make sure you get a HD deliverables paper from your network and give a copy to the person doing the layback. That way, if it doesn't pass QC, the post house will usually fix the problems for free.

Remember - you're not CONVERTING - you're simply rendering your Hi-Def show into a format that is easily laid to tape per their specs.. You could do this yourself by purchasing a Deckling HD card and renting the HDCAM deck, but unless you're real savvy with high-end decks, I'd avoid it, getting a frame accurate layback that makes it through your networks QC can be tricky and end up costing more in the end.

Lance

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Hey Lance,
Nice to see you around these parts!

[Ben Chancey]

Lance that was spot on. Some of the linguistics you used in there will make me sound a heck of a lot smarter when I talk to the post houses. Great post. DSE has helped me along quite well and what you just wrote puts the finishing touches on it. Is there problems with the DVC PRO HD codec or do you think it is not really the standard the networks prefer? You were also correct about Cineform. Vinny emailed me yesterday and said it was no problem. I also have a tape question. http://www.tapestockonline.com/hdcam.html There tapes are Sony HDCAM BCT-32HD Tape
1 - 9 $29.25 ea.

Is this the right tape? DSE and other production houses were giving me much higher prices on the tapes and I wanted to make sure I was not purchasing the wrong thing.

Regards,
Capt Ben

[Lance Bachelder]

Hey Douglas! Small web!

The tapes will be fine. I assume you have a half hour show. Cineform is a great intermediate codec and much better than dealing with native HDV files.

You can use DVCPRO HD if your network accepts that as a delivery format and you can get a good deal on layback.

If what they really want is standard HDCAM - then don't waste time/money with DVCPRO HD - you already have your show in a superior format (Cineform)!

Lance

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Ben Chancey

HDCAM BCT-32HD Tape
1 - 9 $29.25 ea.

Is this the right tape? DSE and other production houses were giving me much higher prices on the tapes and I wanted to make sure I was not purchasing the wrong thing.

Regards,
Capt Ben

That is a 32 minute tape. I thought your show was 48mins for an hour slot?