Masking with Moving Characters on Top of Themselves at DVinfo.net

Josh Hausman · January 22nd, 2006, 03:46 AM

Having just figured out how to mask properly, I'm trying to go about with our new project, which involves many of the same character in the same shots. However, I'm having particular trouble with movement masking. The character in this scene is standing at a sink, with each individual at a sink. One of them in the middle raises up their hand, obviously requiring a remask. I tried simply going frame by frame using the event pan/crop function and tracing out a new mask, but this leads to the blocky effect pictured below, and looks even worse in motion. Look at the middle characters arm for this effect.

http://www.uploaderx.net/pics/blockproblem.jpg

So, this way is neither producing very good quality, and it's taking way too long for a three second shot. Any ideas/advice/anything?

Edward Troxel · January 22nd, 2006, 06:34 AM

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /pics/blockproblem.jpg on this server.

Josh Hausman · January 22nd, 2006, 03:07 PM

Sorry not sure why it's not working, you have to copy and paste the link into your browser.

Gary Kleiner · January 22nd, 2006, 08:29 PM

Not sure what's causing blockiness for you.

To create a dynamic mask, use the Bezier masking and set keyframes to follow the motion so the mask koves and changes size and shape as needed.

You can realign the points as needed and/or move the entire mask. The process is actually pretty quick when you get the hang of it.

Gary

Josh Hausman · January 22nd, 2006, 11:45 PM

Thats the method I was going with, but problems arise when I see the product in motion. Because it's almost impossible for me to create exactly the same looking mask with every frame, I get a slight flickering as the video plays as the mask keeps aligning itself. Needless to say it's fairly distracting and looks terrible. Anyway to eliminate that would be great.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 22nd, 2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Hausman

Thats the method I was going with, but problems arise when I see the product in motion. Because it's almost impossible for me to create exactly the same looking mask with every frame, I get a slight flickering as the video plays as the mask keeps aligning itself. Needless to say it's fairly distracting and looks terrible. Anyway to eliminate that would be great.

Josh, what you are trying to do, if you're looking to cut out a person, is more of a deep level rotoscoping task, and while it *can* be done in Vegas, it's very, very difficult to do with motion media, and if it's interlaced media, it's darn near impossible to cleanly do without hours and hours of painstaking labor. For interlaced media, you need one keyframe per half-frame of video, or 60 keyframes a second. Boris RED, Combustion, and other tools are better suited for extracting a subject from a background. I'd bet you'd find it faster to render out progressive frames, go into Photoshop, cut out each frame there, and reassemble the frames in Vegas, and probably have a cleaner frame/image that way.

Josh Hausman · January 23rd, 2006, 12:12 AM

Which would you recommend for ease of use, speed and quality...Boris Red or the photoshop method.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 23rd, 2006, 12:16 AM

If you're going to be doing a lot of this, I'd definitely recommend Combustion, but if this is a one-shot deal or a not-so-often occurence, I'd use the script to create 30 frames a second, drop those into Photoshop, and go that route. RED is good too, but personally, I find Combustion a tad easier to work with.

Josh Hausman · January 23rd, 2006, 11:57 AM

Well unfortunately the project we've decided on involves an invasions from an army of clones of this one kid, so the effect is gonna be used extensively in the movie. Where can I find some info on this Combustion?

K. Forman · January 23rd, 2006, 12:04 PM

look here- they even have a trial.
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=5562397

I don't think it's cheap though.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · January 23rd, 2006, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Hausman

Well unfortunately the project we've decided on involves an invasions from an army of clones of this one kid, so the effect is gonna be used extensively in the movie. Where can I find some info on this Combustion?

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=5562397

[edit]LOL, Keith was posting at the same time. Ya beat me, Keith! No, it's not cheap. But this sort of rotoscoping isn't cheap, nor easy, even with a high end tool.

Josh Hausman · January 23rd, 2006, 12:27 PM

Thanks for the info guys, once I find it, any good tutorials I out there that'll get me on the right track quickly?

This is quite the project for a group of guys just making a movie for fun, isn't it. :)

K. Forman · January 23rd, 2006, 12:31 PM

Just do what we did- Google Discreet Combustion.

Mike Kujbida · January 23rd, 2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Hausman

any good tutorials out there

Josh, take a look at the "Two Cats From One" tutorial at http://matthew.chaboud.com/vegas5/twocats/ and see if it gives you any ideas.

Mike

Josh Hausman · January 23rd, 2006, 09:18 PM

Well looking at the cat tutorial really got my hopes up that this kind of thing was possible in Vegas, but I've been following it step by step, even downloaded his file of the project and media, and I STILL can't recreate it. I don't know what's wrong, anything you guys see in this tutorial that possibily needs to be updated for Vegas 6.0?

January 22nd, 2006, 03:46 AM	#1
Josh Hausman New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Masking with Moving Characters on Top of Themselves Having just figured out how to mask properly, I'm trying to go about with our new project, which involves many of the same character in the same shots. However, I'm having particular trouble with movement masking. The character in this scene is standing at a sink, with each individual at a sink. One of them in the middle raises up their hand, obviously requiring a remask. I tried simply going frame by frame using the event pan/crop function and tracing out a new mask, but this leads to the blocky effect pictured below, and looks even worse in motion. Look at the middle characters arm for this effect. http://www.uploaderx.net/pics/blockproblem.jpg So, this way is neither producing very good quality, and it's taking way too long for a three second shot. Any ideas/advice/anything?

January 22nd, 2006, 06:34 AM	#2
Edward Troxel Sponsor: JET DV Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 7,953	Forbidden You don't have permission to access /pics/blockproblem.jpg on this server. __________________ Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters

January 23rd, 2006, 12:16 AM	#8
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	If you're going to be doing a lot of this, I'd definitely recommend Combustion, but if this is a one-shot deal or a not-so-often occurence, I'd use the script to create 30 frames a second, drop those into Photoshop, and go that route. RED is good too, but personally, I find Combustion a tad easier to work with. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

January 23rd, 2006, 12:04 PM	#10
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	look here- they even have a trial. http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet...112&id=5562397 I don't think it's cheap though. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

January 23rd, 2006, 12:31 PM	#13
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Just do what we did- Google Discreet Combustion. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us

January 22nd, 2006, 03:07 PM	#3
Josh Hausman New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Sorry not sure why it's not working, you have to copy and paste the link into your browser.

January 22nd, 2006, 08:29 PM	#4
Gary Kleiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado Posts: 166	Not sure what's causing blockiness for you. To create a dynamic mask, use the Bezier masking and set keyframes to follow the motion so the mask koves and changes size and shape as needed. You can realign the points as needed and/or move the entire mask. The process is actually pretty quick when you get the hang of it. Gary

January 22nd, 2006, 11:45 PM	#5
Josh Hausman New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Thats the method I was going with, but problems arise when I see the product in motion. Because it's almost impossible for me to create exactly the same looking mask with every frame, I get a slight flickering as the video plays as the mask keeps aligning itself. Needless to say it's fairly distracting and looks terrible. Anyway to eliminate that would be great.

January 23rd, 2006, 12:12 AM	#7
Josh Hausman New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Which would you recommend for ease of use, speed and quality...Boris Red or the photoshop method.

January 23rd, 2006, 11:57 AM	#9
Josh Hausman New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Well unfortunately the project we've decided on involves an invasions from an army of clones of this one kid, so the effect is gonna be used extensively in the movie. Where can I find some info on this Combustion?

January 23rd, 2006, 12:27 PM	#12
Josh Hausman New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Thanks for the info guys, once I find it, any good tutorials I out there that'll get me on the right track quickly? This is quite the project for a group of guys just making a movie for fun, isn't it. :)

January 23rd, 2006, 09:18 PM	#15
Josh Hausman New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 13	Well looking at the cat tutorial really got my hopes up that this kind of thing was possible in Vegas, but I've been following it step by step, even downloaded his file of the project and media, and I STILL can't recreate it. I don't know what's wrong, anything you guys see in this tutorial that possibily needs to be updated for Vegas 6.0?