Problem Authoring 16:9 DVD w/ Vegas and DVDA

[Randy Rogers]

Scenario: I shot some video with a Sony HC1 HDV cam. I then down-converted the HDV to DV using the camera and cloning the down-converted footage to mini-DV tape. Using Vegas Video v6, I captured the DV to my harddrive, did my edits, rendered an mpeg2, and authored a 16:9 widescreen NTSC DVD with DVD Architect v2.

Problem: When viewed on a widescreen television, the video looks proportionally corrrect, however, it doesn't fill the screen - there are black bars on the tops and sides; those on the top are slightly larger than those on the sides. I would guestimate the bars were about 4 inches on the top and bottom, and 3 inches on the sides when viewed on a 65 inch screen. I viewed the DVD on several widescreen televisions at an electronics store and got the same result.

Thanks,

Randy

I've made some screen captures of my settings. Any help figuring out what I'm doing wrong would be greatly appreciated.

This image shows the projects properties (file --> properties) in Vegas Video.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...properties.jpg


This image shows the video's properties when I right click on the video in the timeline in Vegas Video.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...clicktrack.jpg


This image shows the rendering settings in Vegas Video.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...asrenderas.jpg


This image shows the advanced video tab settings in Vegas Video.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...edvideotab.jpg


This image shows the project's properties (file --> properties) in DVD Architect.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...properties.jpg


This image shows the optimize settings in DVD Architect.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-...DAoptimize.jpg

[Michael Wisniewski]

Randy, the project video size is set to 1,280x720 instead of 720x480. Tell us if changing that fixes the problem. And thanks for posting all the screen shots.

[Steve Crisdale]

Randy,

How come you aren't capturing the HDV and converting to CFHD for editing?

I know I have an FX-1, but it's something that those of us who've experimented with the cameras now know, that downconverting in the cam is fine, but downconverting from a uncompressed HD version of the m2t yields tangibly superior results.

Are you not altering the bit-rate settings of your MPEG2 final render in Vegas for any particular reason? If you adjust the settings for Max, Av and Min to somewhat more than the default, the amount of compression is reduced, and using Double Pass allows the encoder to refine and improve motion compensation as well as where and how compression is applied.

If what you've done works fine for you... then stick to it. If you'd like to push what HDV can give you, then it may be worth the experimentation.

[Randy Rogers]

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale

Randy,

How come you aren't capturing the HDV and converting to CFHD for editing?

Steve,

For the sake of saving time and not going into unnecessary detail, I said I shot the video. Actually, it was shot and downconverted by a friend in the US who sent me the mini-DV tapes. I live in Asia, so the camera wasn't available for me to use.

Having said that, I am a complete newbie when it comes to HDV. About the only thing I knew before I started reading this forum a few days ago was that it was possible to down-convert the video onto mini-DV tape, so that's what I asked my friend to do.

I am debating getting one of the HDV cams. I am simply a hobbyist and don't do any payed professional work. But I've reached a point where I think some of the work I do is on par with a lot of professional work as I've become fairly adept at editing video and authoring nice DVDs, so I am seriously starting to consider it.

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale

I know I have an FX-1, but it's something that those of us who've experimented with the cameras now know, that downconverting in the cam is fine, but downconverting from a uncompressed HD version of the m2t yields tangibly superior results.

There are still a lot of terms in this forum with which I am not familiar - but I'm chomping at the bit to learn. I don't know what "m2t," "SD" and "CFHD" stand for.

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale

Are you not altering the bit-rate settings of your MPEG2 final render in Vegas for any particular reason? If you adjust the settings for Max, Av and Min to somewhat more than the default, the amount of compression is reduced, and using Double Pass allows the encoder to refine and improve motion compensation as well as where and how compression is applied.

If what you've done works fine for you... then stick to it. If you'd like to push what HDV can give you, then it may be worth the experimentation.

Actually, I did change the settings when I rendered the mpeg. The bitrates weren't a factor in the problem I was experiencing, so I only changed the pertinent settings when I opened Vegas to make that screenshot; leaving the bitrate settings in default mode.

Not that anyone might be curious, but it was a 70 minute video w/ PCM audio, so I rendered as two-pass VBR with an avg bitrate of 6,650 and a max of 9,000.

Thank you very much for your response.

Randy

[Steve Crisdale]

No worries.

m2t is the file extension for the MPEG2 Transport Stream that HDV camcorders record to tape.

CFHD is the codec created by Cineform that converts the compressed m2t into an 'uncompressed' AVI file for easier and smoother editing.

Hopefully it'll all become clearer the more you work with the stuff...

[Randy Rogers]

I made the correction in the project settings and have a much nicer looking DVD now. The DVD still doesn't fill the screen on a widescreen television - there are still four inch gaps at the top and bottom when viewed on a 60" screen.

However, I am not going to worry about it. I noticed that some official release DVDs being played at the electronics store were doing the same thing. The aspect ration looks correct, so that's good enough for me.

Having said all this, I still am a little perplexed as to why some DVDs fill the screen and some don't.

Randy

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Randy Rogers

I made the correction in the project settings and have a much nicer looking DVD now. The DVD still doesn't fill the screen on a widescreen television - there are still four inch gaps at the top and bottom when viewed on a 60" screen.

However, I am not going to worry about it. I noticed that some official release DVDs being played at the electronics store were doing the same thing. The aspect ration looks correct, so that's good enough for me.

Having said all this, I still am a little perplexed as to why some DVDs fill the screen and some don't.

Randy

Could be the 1280x720 project setting as mentioned by Michael.

When I'm working with HDV 1080, I make 1440x1080 PAR 1.3333 the project resolution and pixel aspect ratio. I then select the Render As template for the DVD type that I'm after (generally PAL DVD Architect WS 720x576) and the resulting DVD fills my 16:9 WS HDTV completely.

Placing 720x480 DV onto a 1280x720 project size will "window" the DV onto the 720 HD background and very likely yield the black "bars", as the full 1280x720 frame size is what will be rendered down to 720x480, rather than the 720x480 video that is "sitting" on top... if that makes sense?

It may be worth changing the project settings to 720x480 NTSC DVD WS and see whether that does do the trick.

I don't know how well you know Vegas... because you could also try "stretch video to fit" in "Event Pan/Crop" check to see that under the "source" listing, "Stretch to fill frame" is selected if you just want a way to make it work without changing the project properties.

Just remember, that there's no advantage to using a HD resolution Project Properties when you are using DV resolution source video, so stretching the DV to 1280x720 before making a 720x480 finished product isn't going to improve things by adding pixel information - it may actually look worse!! The only way to achieve that extra detail/clarity in a DVD final product is to start with HD 1280x720 or 1440x1080.

Good luck!!

[Randy Rogers]

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale

Could be the 1280x720 project setting as mentioned by Michael.

Steve,

I followed Michael's advice and for this last render (and authoring) I changed the project setting to 720X480. I also ensured that the video itself (by right clicking on it while it was in the timeline) also was showing that it was 720X480.

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale

I don't know how well you know Vegas... because you could also try "stretch video to fit" in "Event Pan/Crop" check to see that under the "source" listing, "Stretch to fill frame" is selected if you just want a way to make it work without changing the project properties.

I just checked - and both "maintain aspect ratio" and "stretch to fill frame" in the source listing are set for "yes."

Also, when I render, in the opening "render as" window, I have the "stretch video to fill output frame size (do not letterbox)" checked.

Randy

[John Rofrano]

Randy,

The problem may actually be in the way the source footage was downconverted. I don’t know what the downconvert options are on the HC1 (I only have a Z1) but you want to have your friend use the Squeeze option so that you get anamorphic DV footage. If when you preview the footage on your DV camcorder LCD the footage fills the entire screen but it is vertically squeezed, then he downconverted it correctly. If it doesn’t fill your camcorder LCD screen and look squeezed then the footage is not going to work properly for what you want to do.

Assuming the footage looks OK on your camcorder, open a new Vegas project and set the Project properties to NTSC DV Widescreen. At this point your footage should fill the widescreen preview correctly (it helps to set the preview window to Simulate Device Aspect Ratio). If the footage doesn’t fill the preview window, then right-click on the footage on the timeline and go into the Properties / Media tab and make sure the Pixel Aspect ratio is set to 1.2121 (NTSC DV Widescreen). If it isn’t, set it to that. If it still doesn’t fill your project preview correctly, then something is wrong with the source footage you got from your friend. Nothing you are going to do is going to fix this. He needs to downconvert it properly.

If it does look correct in the Vegas preview (properly filling the preview window) Edit your footage, then Render As... DVD Architect NTSC Widescreen video stream and a separate AC3 Stereo audio stream. Drop these files in DVD Architect and burn your DVD.

You should not be changing ANYTHING about the project properties at all. If the footage it DV Widescreen then your project should be DV Widescreen (there is no HDV anything here since you don’t have HDV footage). The only change you might want to make is to the MPEG2 data rate if you need to fit more than 90 minutes on the DVD. Other than that, don’t play with any other settings.

~jr