|
|||||||||
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
November 6th, 2005, 06:46 PM | #1 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 33
|
Best Rendering Setting for 24p (deinterlaced)??
I was wondering what the best settings would be when rendering deinterlaced 24p (from 60i) to look film-like as much as possible without any 3rd party addons, but just what the Vegas can do. I see a lot of things that can be customized, but do not know most of them.
I use my optura Xi on 16:9 |
November 8th, 2005, 10:02 AM | #2 |
Sponsor: VASST
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 516
|
If you are serious about obtaining a true 24p film-look, you should be doing this at the BEGINING of your project, not in the final render. The first thing you should do is convert your 60i footage to 24p BEFORE you do any other work. Then set the Vegas project properties to 24p so that all of your edits, transitions, titles, etc. are true 24p. Otherwise you will find that transitions get weird as 60i transitions are reverse telecined to get the 24p cadence. Also by having your project at 24p Vegas will create all generated media in 24p giving you the best possible look.
The procedure to do this is documented in this VASST tutorial Getting a film look with 24P in Vegas. This will give you all the details on what rendering settings to use. Because there are several steps to achieve this, we created VASST Celluloid. It follows the same procedure in this tutorial and does all the hard work for you. It also has a few free film looks built in. Celluloid alone is now a FREE download from the VASST site. I would read the tutorial so you can understand the process, but then let Celluloid apply the 24p look for you. If you just want to render as 24p then you can use our Freeware tool VASST DVD Prep to render your project to a DVD Architect compliant 24p MPEG2 file with AC3 audio all with one click. ~jr
__________________
Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com |
November 9th, 2005, 08:48 PM | #3 |
Major Player
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 542
|
Forgive my ignorance, but I thought Vegas 6 changed the required workflow for 60i to 24p (your link talks about Vegas 4)? I thought you could now just open a 24p project, import 60i events into the timeline, do your transitions/effects, then render out to 24p or 24p with 3:2 pulldown? Maybe not, but I though v6 made the workflow different? Also, what about this link to a different "updated" version of the article you reference above? Although the page is completely screwed up and nearly impossible to read (I had to cut-paste into a different app to read it)...
http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/tu..._in_Vegas6.htm
__________________
BayTaper.com | One man's multimedia journey through the San Francisco live jazz and creative music scene. |
November 10th, 2005, 10:43 AM | #4 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 150
|
Yes I agree - I thought Vegas 6.0 simplified this but I am still a bit unclear as to whether I can go directly to 24p NTSC DVD Architect mpeg from SD DV or not. Can someone clarify this as it applies to titles and transitions and proper rendering?
Also, if someone is using Vegas 6.0 and has come up with a good workflow plus settings/filters to do this it would be appreciated and allow us to cut to the chase on this without hours of experimentation. I would just like to get to a basic filmic look and author to DVD using Architect. Also, what is the advantage of DVDPrep really? Is it saving a step or two or does it render faster/better than Vegas 6.0c does? tks - this is a great forum.
__________________
Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..." |
November 10th, 2005, 01:57 PM | #5 | |
Sponsor: VASST
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 516
|
Quote:
This is why I prefaced my statement with "If you are serious about obtaining a true 24p" with "true" being the operative word. i.e., to be as accurate as possible, work in 24p from the start. I did not mean to imply that this was the only way to achieve 24p. It is just the most accurate way. You might not need that level of accuracy. ~jr
__________________
Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com |
|
November 10th, 2005, 02:11 PM | #6 | |||
Sponsor: VASST
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 516
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The second kind is for people who want a DVD Architect compliant MPEG2 file and AC3 audio but don’t want render twice or use the batch renderer because it has too many options. DVDPrep streamlines the process for them. ~jr
__________________
Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com |
|||
November 10th, 2005, 03:02 PM | #7 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 542
|
Quote:
I knew I must have been missing something, now I get it completely. So, would it be safe to say, that as long as I'm ok with losing or adding one frame on my edits, then it's not worth bothering to add the extra step to the workflow, where if one frame really might matter, then I should use the extra step in the workflow? Also, quick question... When you say the default MPEG2 template sucks, are you talking about the default DVDA templates for rendering straight out of vegas itself, or the templates used in DVDA? I typically render out my AC3 and MPEG2 DVDA Widescreen NTSC right from Vegas. Are you saying I should be getting much better quality by doing something different than using those templates? Thanks for your help...
__________________
BayTaper.com | One man's multimedia journey through the San Francisco live jazz and creative music scene. |
|
November 10th, 2005, 03:27 PM | #8 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 150
|
Thanks for the comment now one final question. If I want to work in TRUE 24p do I take the 60i 29.97 source and convert to 24p with 3:2 pulldown then use that in the timeline?
Or should I use some other template for 24p say 2:3:3:2 or something like that?? Reason: I see it mentioned both ways and something rings a bell that if you want to edit in 24p you have to uese the 2:3:3:2 pulldown for the initial convert prior to EDITing - THEN when you want to render to the DVDA version you use the 24p DVD A NTSC template that I believe puts the video into its final form at 2:3 pulldown for DVD. Correct??
__________________
Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..." |
November 10th, 2005, 03:30 PM | #9 | ||
Sponsor: VASST
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 516
|
Quote:
Quote:
~jr
__________________
Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com |
||
November 10th, 2005, 03:32 PM | #10 | |
Sponsor: JET DV
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 7,953
|
Quote:
__________________
Edward Troxel [SCVU] JETDV Scripts/Scripting Tutorials/Excalibur/Montage Magic/Newsletters |
|
November 10th, 2005, 03:49 PM | #11 | ||
Sponsor: VASST
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 516
|
Quote:
Quote:
If, however, your final format is a DVD Architect 24p MPEG2 file, then you should render using 2:3 pulldown because you are never going to remove it. Your Vegas project should be set to 24p and your final render will also be to 24p with 2-3 pulldown. Does that make sense? ~jr
__________________
Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com |
||
November 10th, 2005, 08:50 PM | #12 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 150
|
John - Thanks. I am going to 24p DVD Arhcitect NTSC ultimately. I was just wondering if I really needed to convert the clips first to 24p BEFORE doing the editing or if I could just work in 60i - do all my edits - and then do the render to 24p using the DVDA template.
What I believe your are saying is YES go ahead and render the captured AVI and insert 2:3 pulldown. Set up the project using the 24p template - add the newly rendered 24p to the timeline - do your edits and render out to DVDA 24p NTSC template. Correct? Now here is a wrinkle. If the source is 1080 60i HDV I guess I would still go to 24p AVI FIRST then add to the timeline and edit and then render to the DVDA 24p template. The workflow is generally the same in going to 24p regardless of HDV or DV source?? I can down convert but prefer to capture as M2T HDV source because I have maximum quality and information to work with - do you know if this would be true too? tks - ph
__________________
Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..." |
November 10th, 2005, 10:56 PM | #13 |
Sponsor: VASST
Join Date: May 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 516
|
Yes you have the process correct. It is the same for HDV as DV. As some have pointed out, you can also work at 60i and convert to 24p as a last step as long as there are no critical frame accurate edits that might get messed up during the 2:3 pulldown process. For most work this is fine too.
You should try a test both ways and see if you can tell the difference. If you can’t, then use the easier method of converting at the end. Vegas 6 is a lot better at this than Vegas 5 or 4 were. If you have a Sony Z1/FX1, you can also shoot CF24 and use CineForm ConnectHD to convert to 24p at capture time! The captured file will be at 23.976 fps and the results are really nice (better than CF24 alone). ~jr
__________________
Developer: VASST Ultimate S, Scattershot 3D, Mayhem, FASST Apps, and other VASST Software plug-ins Web Site: www.johnrofrano.com |
November 11th, 2005, 02:13 PM | #14 | |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 150
|
Quote:
I have a Sony HDR-HC1 and love it so far. It has a cinematic mode that adds some judder to the film. I haven't experimented much with this but I'm thinking this would only be useful for HD productions printed back to tape. If I'm going to DVD ulitmately for a project then adding more effects at the time of filming may not be the way to go. Anyone have experience with this setting? ph
__________________
Phil Hamilton hamiltonp@sbcglobal.net Dallas, Texas " I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here! ..." |
|
November 12th, 2005, 01:09 PM | #15 |
Major Player
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 277
|
It's not just frame accuracy. It's things like fades. In, out, and cross. Those are effects that change in character depending on their framerate. A 60i title fading in and out looks like video. If the effect is generated in 24p, however, then it looks more fimic, and generally better in most cases.
Last edited by DJ Kinney; November 13th, 2005 at 12:28 AM. |
| ||||||
|
|