mask 'outline' problem at DVinfo.net

Norman Szabo · October 27th, 2005, 04:28 AM

Hi,

Im having another weird problem in Vegas 5, this time with using event masks. You can see what Im talking about in this sample image, with the clearly visible line around the doll's mouth:

http://www.abelard-and-heloise.com/c...lemexample.jpg

What Im doing is using a mask to superimpose a speaking mouth over a stop motion background of the same character, but the lines around the edge of the mask are clearly visible. Sometimes(!) switching masking anti-alias OFF will make the lines go away, but not always.

I have a similar problem with garbage mattes around greenscreen shots; sometimes the 'blur' option in chroma key gets rid of the outline, sometimes not, or not completely.

It's also seems to be harder to get rid of these artifacts when Im simultaneously panning around the frame.

So, a simple question: Does anyone know how I can get rid of these things? What am I doing wrong?? Thanks!

(btw the footage is all 60i captured from a Sony PD150; brightness and contrast have been ramped up)

Graham Bernard · October 27th, 2005, 06:37 AM

Is this a Bezier mask? Created within Vegas? If so try blurring the edge of the Bezier. There are 3 options from the Bezier line: blur IN; blur OUT or BOTH. it is a neat setting and I would think perfect for what you want.

Grazie

David Jimerson · October 27th, 2005, 06:59 AM

Man, that's going to be one freaky piece of video when it's done.

Are you applying the bezier mask to the speaking mouth or to the doll?

If to the speaking mouth and laying it on the top of the doll, you might consider taking the mouth out of the doll and putting the speaking mouth event UNDER it.

Norman Szabo · October 27th, 2005, 09:31 AM

Graham, yes it's a bezier mask created within the video event (as opposed to on the entire track) in Vegas. But blurring (feathering) in or out invariably makes the problem *worse.* The line just gets thicker and even more noticeable. (although as I mentioned, when I use a garbage matte and a chroma key, increasing blur amount in the chroma key effect usually does indeed often help to dissipate the line.)

David, yeah it should indeed be a pretty freaky bit of video when it's done! Thanks for noticing :-) In that sample image, yeah Im applying the mask to the speaking mouth, but unfortunately reversing the overlays doesnt help :-( -- I just tried it, and theres still a visible line around the mask 'hole', so it doesnt seem to make any difference whether it's a positive or negative mask.

Glenn Chan · October 27th, 2005, 10:34 AM

If you have filters on the clip, maybe it's because the filters are applied after masking. To change this:
Go into event FX
Click the little triangles in the bottom left. Watch the order of your filter, you may need to re-arrange them.
Done.

Robert Kirkpatrick · October 27th, 2005, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman Szabo

(btw the footage is all 60i captured from a Sony PD150; brightness and contrast have been ramped up)

Not sure if this will help, but try this. Don't put any filters or color changes (such as brightness or contrast) on the tracks or footage you are trying to do masks with (both of them). Simply take the raw footage, do the mask, and then render that out. Then apply brightness and contrast on the rendered footage. I've found that in Vegas, if you add effects with a mask, it sometimes produces those lines.

Norman Szabo · October 27th, 2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Kirkpatrick

. I've found that in Vegas, if you add effects with a mask, it sometimes produces those lines.

Actually Im very glad to hear that! because I was beginning to think this was only happening to me! :-)

anyway, Robert, Glenn, thanks for your suggestions. Im not quite sure how to render out footage that incorporates a garbage matte (maybe just put greenscreen where the garbage was? I guess that would work, yes?) but I'll try playing around with these parameters when I get back on my edit machine tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes....

Norman Szabo · October 30th, 2005, 02:07 AM

Thanks everyone -- and especially Glenn! Because those little triangles are the best and easiest fix for the problem :-)

All I had to do was change the order to 'apply effects before masking' (at least I think that's what it means when I toggle the little triangles to point to the left) and the mask outline artifact disappeaed. Yay!

Glenn Chan · October 30th, 2005, 12:22 PM

It took me a long time to figure out those little triangles... I'm glad that helped you.

October 27th, 2005, 04:28 AM	#1
Norman Szabo Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Keelung Taiwan ROC Posts: 42	mask 'outline' problem Hi, Im having another weird problem in Vegas 5, this time with using event masks. You can see what Im talking about in this sample image, with the clearly visible line around the doll's mouth: http://www.abelard-and-heloise.com/c...lemexample.jpg What Im doing is using a mask to superimpose a speaking mouth over a stop motion background of the same character, but the lines around the edge of the mask are clearly visible. Sometimes(!) switching masking anti-alias OFF will make the lines go away, but not always. I have a similar problem with garbage mattes around greenscreen shots; sometimes the 'blur' option in chroma key gets rid of the outline, sometimes not, or not completely. It's also seems to be harder to get rid of these artifacts when Im simultaneously panning around the frame. So, a simple question: Does anyone know how I can get rid of these things? What am I doing wrong?? Thanks! (btw the footage is all 60i captured from a Sony PD150; brightness and contrast have been ramped up)

October 27th, 2005, 06:59 AM	#3
David Jimerson Jubal 28 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 872	Man, that's going to be one freaky piece of video when it's done. Are you applying the bezier mask to the speaking mouth or to the doll? If to the speaking mouth and laying it on the top of the doll, you might consider taking the mouth out of the doll and putting the speaking mouth event UNDER it. __________________ www.wrightsvillebeachstudios.com

October 27th, 2005, 06:37 AM	#2
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Is this a Bezier mask? Created within Vegas? If so try blurring the edge of the Bezier. There are 3 options from the Bezier line: blur IN; blur OUT or BOTH. it is a neat setting and I would think perfect for what you want. Grazie

October 27th, 2005, 09:31 AM	#4
Norman Szabo Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Keelung Taiwan ROC Posts: 42	Graham, yes it's a bezier mask created within the video event (as opposed to on the entire track) in Vegas. But blurring (feathering) in or out invariably makes the problem worse. The line just gets thicker and even more noticeable. (although as I mentioned, when I use a garbage matte and a chroma key, increasing blur amount in the chroma key effect usually does indeed often help to dissipate the line.) David, yeah it should indeed be a pretty freaky bit of video when it's done! Thanks for noticing :-) In that sample image, yeah Im applying the mask to the speaking mouth, but unfortunately reversing the overlays doesnt help :-( -- I just tried it, and theres still a visible line around the mask 'hole', so it doesnt seem to make any difference whether it's a positive or negative mask.

October 27th, 2005, 10:34 AM	#5
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	If you have filters on the clip, maybe it's because the filters are applied after masking. To change this: Go into event FX Click the little triangles in the bottom left. Watch the order of your filter, you may need to re-arrange them. Done.

October 30th, 2005, 02:07 AM	#8
Norman Szabo Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Keelung Taiwan ROC Posts: 42	Thanks everyone -- and especially Glenn! Because those little triangles are the best and easiest fix for the problem :-) All I had to do was change the order to 'apply effects before masking' (at least I think that's what it means when I toggle the little triangles to point to the left) and the mask outline artifact disappeaed. Yay!

October 30th, 2005, 12:22 PM	#9
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	It took me a long time to figure out those little triangles... I'm glad that helped you.