Vegas pro maybe dead. Catalyst goes subscription

[Christopher Young]

Interestingly I received an email from Sony yesterday announcing that Sony's Catalyst apps have gone to subscription. A Catalyst installation will also need to validate your subscription via an internet connection once a month. Lost me there right away!

More info here. It is interesting to note that at the head of the page under 'Video' it shows the 'Movie Studio' icon not the Vegas icon.

https://www.custcenter.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5198

Sorry to say I will not be subscribing to a piece of software that is currently far from mature and not ready to work as a main stream editor. I will stick with my current Vegas versions and move over to Edius my second string editor as I find it a very good performer for real time HD and 4K playback. Still keeping Vegas for final audio as it is still streets ahead of Edius. At least Edius has not gone subscription... yet!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Brian Drysdale]

Currently, Catalyst seems to be media asset management software. Editshare has the Flow range, which seems to be more heavy duty than Catalyst, but they have announced Flow Story (based on the Lightworks engine), which seems to perform the same functions as Catalyst Edit.

[Leslie Wand]

seems they're digging a hole...

lost me not only with subs. but a pathetic excuse for an nle in edit...

[Brian Drysdale]

There seems be a market for these lite NLEs for early editing prep by production people and news editing etc.

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

...

Sorry to say I will not be subscribing to a piece of software that is currently far from mature and not ready to work as a main stream editor. I will stick with my current Vegas versions and move over to Edius my second string editor as I find it a very good performer for real time HD and 4K playback. Still keeping Vegas for final audio as it is still streets ahead of Edius. At least Edius has not gone subscription... yet!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

I follow the same approach. EDIUS for video and Vegas for audio. EDIUS 8Pro does need to be connected to the internet periodically much like TMPGenc but EDIUS 8WG does not need to be connected. EDIUS also has a Browser function too that I have not used. I have started to use Catalyst Browse to transfer files from my AX100 though.

Ron Evans

[David Johns]

No way I'm buying subscription software either - a shame as I do think Catalyst has promise, if they hurry up and get on with it. I'm not paying for software that expires when I stop handing over cash though.

I've played with Edius and liked it to some extent - but do we know that it also isn't dying? I don't think it's had many updates recently and there's not a lot of forum action about it.

Regards
David

[Ron Evans]

EDIUS is my main editor and has had 3 updates in the last year. EDIUS 8 Pro and EDIUS 8WG came out last year and have been updated with 8.1 , 8.11 and now in the last 2 weeks with 8.2. EDIUS 8PRo will require connection to the internet for license verification periodically ( like TMPGENC ) but EDIUS WG does not require connection. Clearly, focus for EDIUS has been support of the Grass Valley broadcast products and is now paying more attention to the creative marketplace too. Far from dead.

Ron Evans

[Christopher Young]

+1 on what Ron said.

On the right box Edius is a great bit of editing software. I don't find it as intuitive as Vegas but the latest versions have come a long from the early days, I started on v2.0. In those early days Edius was much more of a closed environment codec wise. Today Edius is pretty codec agnostic and can handle most footage flavours and sizes quite easily and can export to about any flavour you want.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by David Johns

there's not a lot of forum action about it.

There is hardly any discussion about Edius on this forum, maybe it's because people using it don't have any problems with it ;) but if you want answers for any problem you might encounter there is the official grassvalley forum: Grass Valley Forums where also people from Grassvalley participate in discussions. There is also a German forum if you prefer that: Startseite - Deutschsprachiges Grass Valley EDIUS Benutzerforum

[Ian Stark]

It's my opinion that Sony's failure to clarify the situation pretty much says it all.

If I'm going to have to move I don't think it's likely to be to Catalyst. I already have a subscription to Creative Suite so I'm pretty sure that's where I'll end up (albeit reluctantly). I will probably hang on until (and if) Sony officially stops supporting Vegas.

On the subject of subscription software, is Sony following the Adobe model or the Cakewalk model? Cakewalk's subscription to Sonar is excellent because you can continue to use the software after you stop paying. The software is still legal and fully functional, but you just don't get any of the updates. Having said that, I don't have a major issue with Adobe's model. I don't see a time when I won't need After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator etc so I'm happy to pay monthly for regular updates.

[Jeff Harper]

Christopher, this thread, which you began, is about the demise of Vegas, and in another Vegas is Dead thread you speak of posting publicity shots for Vegas 14.

Can you please clarify?

[Jack Zhang]

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

On the right box Edius is a great bit of editing software. I don't find it as intuitive as Vegas but the latest versions have come a long from the early days, I started on v2.0. In those early days Edius was much more of a closed environment codec wise. Today Edius is pretty codec agnostic and can handle most footage flavours and sizes quite easily and can export to about any flavour you want.

My problem with Edius is lack of DNxHD MXF support unless you're on the higher tier beyond the prosumer versions. With Quicktime being a risk on Windows, more people need to move to MXF, and locking it to the enterprise version isn't helping.

[Rob Taylor]

I saw the Sony Vegas 14 cover shot on the Dell website a week or so ago. So maybe they will release a new version of Vegas. I switch to Vegas when Adobe went to the subscription model. For me, even if Vegas would be EOL, I see no reason to change to a different editing software anytime soon.
Rob

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

Christopher, this thread, which you began, is about the demise of Vegas, and in another Vegas is Dead thread you speak of posting publicity shots for Vegas 14.

Can you please clarify?

Hence the confusion on my own part Jeff as I don't know what to believe because Sony SCS won't confirm or deny anything. A dealer supplies me prices and artwork of the Vegas Pro 14 release and yet when you go to Sony's link about "Catalyst Prepare and Catalyst Production Suite Subscription Licensing FAQ." the first link I posted in this thread, the top left hand column graphic is of Movie Studio. Wouldn't you have though that they would have headlined that graphic with their top product? Vegas Pro not Movie Studio. That's what SCS have done in the past.

On the one hand I receive news and Vegas 14 graphics which lead me to believe Vegas is still alive and yet on the other hand an important press release like the subscription model of Catalyst headlines its graphic layout with a Movie Studio picture.

Michael Bryant who is SCS's Director of Marketing is pretty much a straight shooter and pretty much up front generally when I have asked him anything about Vegas. At the moment he is playing things pretty close to his chest and is not divulging too much although he did reply with the following when I said that I had seen Vegas Pro 14 material on the web. BTW, this was all since my last post. His reply:

"Yep, some of the dealers apparently didn’t get the memo to hold off. We’ve been dealing with them since the week before last. Oh, well."

A statement like that convinces me that Vegas 14 "was" ready for release but got held over for some reason or other. Maybe the Catalyst Dev team's promotions dept has nothing to do with the lack of a Vegas Pro graphic on their subscription notice URL. Or do they know something we don't.

I just wish Sony would say one way or another whether VP is being EOL'd or not. It's not a good way for SCS to treat its customer base. Leaving them in the dark!

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Leslie Wand]

i think chris echoes and sums up many of our thoughts:

I just wish Sony would say one way or another whether VP is being EOL'd or not. It's not a good way for SCS to treat its customer base. Leaving them in the dark!

scs's approach has not endeared it to many long term, loyal users. in fact i'd go as far to say it's actually alienated a great many.

whilst i have regularly bought vegas since ver 4 through to 13, (whether i actually thought i needed the upgrade or not, has been debatable), i wanted to support the software that has / had earned me a great deal of money over the years, i am unlikely to continue with 14, that is, if there is a 14.

a. i have tried and used the cat suite, and whilst i think and still use prepare (the none sub release), edit is a joke, and especially so since scs seems to think it worth even selling even in it appears to still be in beta form (and that via subscription!). it has so far to go to become anything like a commercially viable nle it's probably dead in the water already, other than as a freebie given away with sony cameras.

b. vegas 13 has proved stable and reasonably robust, and will probably continue working for my purposes whether it's upgraded or not for the foreseeable future. 14 will / would have to offer significant improvements - NOT gimmicks - for me to consider investing in it.

c. scs has shown no interest in keeping me / us informed. even their rare posts over at scs have slowly dwindled to almost nothing - and their lone 'major' voice has left the company entirely...

d. whilst looking for a second string i came across resolve; not only is it FREE, it's well supported, in what appears constant development, and with a forum where the developers regularly pop up with posts.

e. finally, any subscription software that dies without subscription payments is a none starter. adobe lost me after cs6, sony couldn't even entice me back with a super-duper, new, improved, whiter than white 14 if it was sub based - which seems the way they'd like to go.

is this a thinly veiled rant - yes. i am tired of being taken as just another disposable consumer by what purports, if in name only, to be a piece of professional software...