Moving to USB at DVinfo.net

Steven Davis · September 1st, 2015, 10:11 AM

So I shoot HD 1080-60i out of my Canon 300s. What would be a good target work flow out of Sony Vegas 13 for USB? I was thinking I'll stick with 1080p an not dumb it down unless asked by a client. I'm mostly thinking weddings projects for now.

Steve Bleasdale · September 1st, 2015, 11:53 AM

See one of my start threads Steven, you can use full HD but you have to have a lower bit rate as the USB is only 4 GB whatever GB you have...

Steven Davis · September 1st, 2015, 12:04 PM

Thanks Steve,

Trying to figure out how this is going to work for me since I edit long form with a highlight.

Jeff Harper · September 1st, 2015, 08:54 PM

Just use a 16Gb stick, no problem. They are dirt cheap. Still can render out at a quality setting and your long form and a highlight clip will fit. At least mine do.

Chris Harding · September 2nd, 2015, 02:29 AM

I'm dropping a full long form wedding onto an 8GB USB and no problems at all. I use the Sony AVC template 1920x1080 but drop the bitrate from 16000 to 8000 and it still looks stunning and for the bride way, way better than DVD resolution on a TV ... If you want to render at 16000 then do as Jeff says and drop it onto a 16GB USB ... however I find that 8GB and 8000 is plenty for them.

Leslie Wand · September 2nd, 2015, 02:42 AM

just to confirm what's already been mentioned - 8mbs is more than adequate, and more importantly wont cause any problems on most modern equipment.*

*you never know when they'll want to put it on the grandparents ancient pentium 4 xp box ;-)

Chris Harding · September 2nd, 2015, 05:06 AM

Pentium Leslie??? Yeah right ... It usually a case of "We don't want anything to do with them new fangled computer thingies.. we still write letters to people with a pen and paper" I still often need to give brides a DVD set cos Nana still has a 21" CRT TV and we bought them a DVD player 10 years ago as they cannot find movies on VHS anymore!!

Just for interest has anyone delivered 3840x2160 MP4 yet on a USB??? We shoot in UHD but since you can only really watch it practically on a computer and not many people would have a monitor with that resolution it does seem a bit pointless. Yikes, by the time I convince brides to accept 1920x1080 for weddings as the only format I suppose 8K cameras will be the norm!!!

Can the new 4K TV screen actually play 4K video via USB ..I don't know as I cannot afford one!!!

Roger Gunkel · September 2nd, 2015, 10:08 AM

Same old problem unfortunately, the technological boundaries keep getting pushed further forward, but consumer goods can't keep up with the formats.

We can produce footage in UHD and stick it on USB, but nobody can play it. Even HD on a USB can be a minefield, as I found out recently. Different makes of TV seem to struggle with reading USB that another make handles effortlessly. Even BluRay is not compatible across the board in the way that DVD has been. HD has been around for a number of years now and we still struggle with a delivery format and now the manufacturers are trying to supersede HD with 4k with no real thought about how consumers will use it, providing they can make more TV sales.

The trouble is that consumers spend a lot of money on a new TV expecting to keep it for a few years, but the speed of technology movement is faster than the life of a new TV, so consumers are being blinded with techno must have words, like 4K, Ultra High Definition and future proofing, to convince them to spend on something they think they must have. Then they expect us to deliver a video product to match their new equipment.

Roger

Jeff Harper · September 2nd, 2015, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

I drop the bitrate from 16000 to 8000 and it still looks stunning.

I don't disagree Chris, but to me even at 12000 I see a noticeable decrease in quality and at 10000 it starts looking rough in places.

Then again, I've been putting out HD videos for almost 5 years so I might be hypercritical.

I do put them out at 10000 when I'm out of 16gb drives but I don't like the way they look. It really depends on the original quality. If I have grainy footage it just looks a lot worse. Great footage holds up a lot better.

Chris Harding · September 2nd, 2015, 06:55 PM

Hi Jeff

Maybe rendering from UHD does also help too... I would suspect there is better colour information and read about that somewhere. However whether you are rendering from 2160 or 1080 I very much doubt whether the average bride would spot any difference at all. Sure, your eagle eye would easily pick up defects as the bitrate drops but you have standards way higher than the average bride.

Remember she sees the bridesmaids dresses just as pretty pink material and probably cannot even spell resolution so whether she watches it at any bitrate between 6K and 16K she more than likely will simply not see any difference!

Leslie Wand · September 2nd, 2015, 08:46 PM

+1 chris....

the problem is we're professionals always looking for that out of place pixel. unless you're clients are broadcasters, there's very few people around who would notice the difference between 12 > 8mb even if they were told what to look for ;-(

Jeff Harper · September 2nd, 2015, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Remember she sees the bridesmaids dresses just as pretty pink material and probably cannot even spell resolution

True that.

Steve Burkett · September 3rd, 2015, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Just for interest has anyone delivered 3840x2160 MP4 yet on a USB??? We shoot in UHD but since you can only really watch it practically on a computer and not many people would have a monitor with that resolution it does seem a bit pointless. Yikes, by the time I convince brides to accept 1920x1080 for weddings as the only format I suppose 8K cameras will be the norm!!!

Can the new 4K TV screen actually play 4K video via USB ..I don't know as I cannot afford one!!!

Yes I have delivered 4K as a USB format, in 2 cases these were for Marryoke packages and I supplied 4K and HD files. However I have 2 weddings this year where at the Groom's request, high quality maximum bitrate 4K files have been requested, which I'm supplying via an external hard drive they're giving me. Okay one of the Groom's was an AV Installer and the other works in editing, but demand was there.

Incidentally I upload most Trailers and Marryokes as 4K. My 4K TV plays 4K videos just fine via USB and I've used it twice this year at a Wedding. In July I did a same day edit, which I edited in 4K and then showed in the evening as a 4K video via USB. In August I had filmed a Hen Do Marryoke, which was due to be shown during the Wedding as a surprise for the Groom and Guests. I shot additional material for this video during the Bridal Preps and Ceremony and then hurriedly edited it into the video I had. Rendered out as 4K and shown to Guests via my 4K TV during the Maid of Honours Speech.

There are 4K blurays due to come out shortly, I think Xmas is being touted. So I think its only a matter of time before recordable 4K disks become available, no doubt initially at very high prices. At the moment its the lack of 4K content that's holding back 4K; that could change if 4K blurays start appearing on the market.

Chris Harding · September 3rd, 2015, 05:04 AM

Thanks Steve

Great information!! I doubt whether my brides will spring for a 4K TV yet as they are very pricey but will come down I'm sure. Nice to know that UHD plays via USB on them.

On average here our broadband connections are not that flash and if I upload 4K footage to YouTube it will more often than not default to 1080 or in busy periods even 480P ..You Tube base the quality auto set I guess on your connection speed? I can of course manually select 2160P and it does play but tends to buffer a lot ...pity cos it really does lot stunning!!

Chris

Steve Burkett · September 3rd, 2015, 06:21 AM

I don't expect any to play 4K from Youtube directly, but there's software to download it. I've downloaded some 4K material from Youtube and played on my TV via USB. Looks stunning. Currently I struggle playing back HD at the moment, but my broadband is being really crap this year. So downloading is usually the only way I get to view online videos at good quality.

Still as several of my videos from years ago are even now being watched, perhaps one day the 4K versions will get a peak.

September 1st, 2015, 10:11 AM	#1
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Moving to USB So I shoot HD 1080-60i out of my Canon 300s. What would be a good target work flow out of Sony Vegas 13 for USB? I was thinking I'll stick with 1080p an not dumb it down unless asked by a client. I'm mostly thinking weddings projects for now. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

September 1st, 2015, 11:53 AM	#2
Steve Bleasdale Trustee Join Date: May 2010 Location: England liverpool Posts: 1,343	Re: Moving to USB See one of my start threads Steven, you can use full HD but you have to have a lower bit rate as the USB is only 4 GB whatever GB you have...

September 1st, 2015, 12:04 PM	#3
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Re: Moving to USB Thanks Steve, Trying to figure out how this is going to work for me since I edit long form with a highlight. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

September 1st, 2015, 08:54 PM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Moving to USB Just use a 16Gb stick, no problem. They are dirt cheap. Still can render out at a quality setting and your long form and a highlight clip will fit. At least mine do. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

September 2nd, 2015, 02:29 AM	#5
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Moving to USB I'm dropping a full long form wedding onto an 8GB USB and no problems at all. I use the Sony AVC template 1920x1080 but drop the bitrate from 16000 to 8000 and it still looks stunning and for the bride way, way better than DVD resolution on a TV ... If you want to render at 16000 then do as Jeff says and drop it onto a 16GB USB ... however I find that 8GB and 8000 is plenty for them.

September 2nd, 2015, 02:42 AM	#6
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: Moving to USB just to confirm what's already been mentioned - 8mbs is more than adequate, and more importantly wont cause any problems on most modern equipment.* *you never know when they'll want to put it on the grandparents ancient pentium 4 xp box ;-) __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

September 2nd, 2015, 05:06 AM	#7
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Moving to USB Pentium Leslie??? Yeah right ... It usually a case of "We don't want anything to do with them new fangled computer thingies.. we still write letters to people with a pen and paper" I still often need to give brides a DVD set cos Nana still has a 21" CRT TV and we bought them a DVD player 10 years ago as they cannot find movies on VHS anymore!! Just for interest has anyone delivered 3840x2160 MP4 yet on a USB??? We shoot in UHD but since you can only really watch it practically on a computer and not many people would have a monitor with that resolution it does seem a bit pointless. Yikes, by the time I convince brides to accept 1920x1080 for weddings as the only format I suppose 8K cameras will be the norm!!! Can the new 4K TV screen actually play 4K video via USB ..I don't know as I cannot afford one!!!

September 2nd, 2015, 10:08 AM	#8
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: Moving to USB Same old problem unfortunately, the technological boundaries keep getting pushed further forward, but consumer goods can't keep up with the formats. We can produce footage in UHD and stick it on USB, but nobody can play it. Even HD on a USB can be a minefield, as I found out recently. Different makes of TV seem to struggle with reading USB that another make handles effortlessly. Even BluRay is not compatible across the board in the way that DVD has been. HD has been around for a number of years now and we still struggle with a delivery format and now the manufacturers are trying to supersede HD with 4k with no real thought about how consumers will use it, providing they can make more TV sales. The trouble is that consumers spend a lot of money on a new TV expecting to keep it for a few years, but the speed of technology movement is faster than the life of a new TV, so consumers are being blinded with techno must have words, like 4K, Ultra High Definition and future proofing, to convince them to spend on something they think they must have. Then they expect us to deliver a video product to match their new equipment. Roger

September 2nd, 2015, 06:55 PM	#10
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Moving to USB Hi Jeff Maybe rendering from UHD does also help too... I would suspect there is better colour information and read about that somewhere. However whether you are rendering from 2160 or 1080 I very much doubt whether the average bride would spot any difference at all. Sure, your eagle eye would easily pick up defects as the bitrate drops but you have standards way higher than the average bride. Remember she sees the bridesmaids dresses just as pretty pink material and probably cannot even spell resolution so whether she watches it at any bitrate between 6K and 16K she more than likely will simply not see any difference!

September 2nd, 2015, 08:46 PM	#11
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: Moving to USB +1 chris.... the problem is we're professionals always looking for that out of place pixel. unless you're clients are broadcasters, there's very few people around who would notice the difference between 12 > 8mb even if they were told what to look for ;-( __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

September 3rd, 2015, 05:04 AM	#14
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Moving to USB Thanks Steve Great information!! I doubt whether my brides will spring for a 4K TV yet as they are very pricey but will come down I'm sure. Nice to know that UHD plays via USB on them. On average here our broadband connections are not that flash and if I upload 4K footage to YouTube it will more often than not default to 1080 or in busy periods even 480P ..You Tube base the quality auto set I guess on your connection speed? I can of course manually select 2160P and it does play but tends to buffer a lot ...pity cos it really does lot stunning!! Chris

September 3rd, 2015, 06:21 AM	#15
Steve Burkett Trustee Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Romsey, UK Posts: 1,261	Re: Moving to USB I don't expect any to play 4K from Youtube directly, but there's software to download it. I've downloaded some 4K material from Youtube and played on my TV via USB. Looks stunning. Currently I struggle playing back HD at the moment, but my broadband is being really crap this year. So downloading is usually the only way I get to view online videos at good quality. Still as several of my videos from years ago are even now being watched, perhaps one day the 4K versions will get a peak.