Architect problem... claims project is more GB than it is

[Robert Benda]

I can't figure out what the heck I've done wrong. I'm trying to put just under 2 hours of footage to DVD. I used bit rate calculator and made 9 mpg files totaling 9.5 GB (yes, I know that doesn't work... before I go back and re-render the correct size...).

DVD Architect 5 thinks its 12.6 GB of material (no menus or anything yet).

Before I go back and try to resize this properly... what the heck is going on? Why is Architect inflating file sizes? How do I fix it so that when I DO get about 7GB of material, it doesn't think its 11 and thus too big for my DVD?

[Don Bloom]

What format is the audio? If it's not AC3 that's the problem. It needs to be rendered in Vegas to AC3. BTW DVDA will almost always overestimate the size of the file generally by about a half gig but since yours is way over that that's why I went to the audio file size.

[Robert Benda]

Hmmm. Possible. I'll try rendering an AC3 file separately and then drop it into Architect as a replacement for the audio track.

[Graham Bernard]

As you know, DVD size is directly and most influenced by BITRATE. I have often made more than acceptable, greater than 2hr DVDs. Can you list the Bitrates for each of the MPGES? IMO, you really should NOT be needing to re-do an AC3 in an attempt to reduce DVD size. I wouldn't.

Grazie

[Don Bloom]

Grazie, I'm not understanding why you wouldn't render to AC3 when DVDA prefers AC3 as a file type for audio. PPCM or wav is a lot bigger than AC3 so while it does take the time to render the audio to AC3 in Vegas (preferred method) the file size is smaller which allows for a higher bitrate for the video file.
To me it makes perfect sense for Robert to render the file to AC3 which will decrease the file size as opposed to lowering the bitrate of the overall project and of course lower the quality of the video. I'm sure it makes sense to you as well.

[Graham Bernard]

Originally Posted by Don Bloom

Grazie, I'm not understanding why you wouldn't render to AC3 when DVDA prefers AC3 as a file type for audio.

I didn't say that at all. What I said was: " . . you really should NOT be needing to re-do an AC3 in an attempt to reduce DVD size." My understanding is that an AC3 had already been done, and that to redo it, an AC3, wouldn't make much of a difference. I always create an AC3, from this I gather that that had not been done. So, most definitely make an AC3.

Grazie

[Don Bloom]

Sorry Grazie, I misread what you wrote. Too early in the AM for me plus I think the English Accent thru me off. ;-)

See, I didn't see anywhere that the OP had rendered the audio to AC3 and of course as we all know there are only a couple of settings for AC3 and it's pretty much a no brainer which for an old guy who is slowly losing his mind is a very good thing.

Well whatever the OP does I hope it works for him.

[Robert Benda]

I may have simply misunderstood the bitrate it suggested (though I don't think so). I did see that one file, at about 500 mb, showed up in Architect as 618 mb.

I'm rendering the whole set again, this time with separate mpg and audio (AC3) files.

The mpg's will be even lower quality, about a 3.5 million bps average. We'll see what happens. I think I originally did it at about 6 million bps. Re did already at that 4.2 million setting and it was still slightly over.

Very frustrating.

[Don Bloom]

Robert
there are a bunch of bit rate calculators out there. I'm still using one from Edward Trowel that has never let
Me down. The calculator will save you time therfore money as well as grey hairs.

[Garrett Low]

Robert, DVDA always over estimates the finished DVD size. To make sure that your material will fit and that you get the quality you want you should render a DVDA compliant mpeg file or files straight from your NLE and the associated AC3 files. Notice that DVDA compliant files are not completely the same as the DVD compliant specs. Then pull them into DVDA for authoring the DVD. DVDA will report that the estimated finished size is much larger than it really will be. When you go to "Make DVD" click the Optimize button on the Review Message List box. If you see a dimond with an exclamation in the middle the file will be rerendered. I their is a check mark it will not be. As long as your files going into the authoring process are small enough it will fit onto a DVD disc. Leave enough room for your menu pages too.

Also, if you are planning to use a dual layer disc make sure to have a chapter point at about the half way point. Going from one layer to the next can only be done at a chapter break or start of a new file.

Hope that helps.

[Robert Benda]

Garret, I used to use Sony's tool that sent it straight to Architect. That meant having all my material in one project. Now I render each "chapter" or video as its own mpg and AC3, then gather it in Architect myself. That solves my dual layer/split issue. I'm using Sony's mpg template, then just changing the bitrate as needed.

Most of my DVDs have less material than this one, but this wedding was VERY Catholic. Their documentary style video alone is 1 hour 45 minutes, which is absurd, thanks to a long ceremony. Tack on highlights and family interviews and its... well, longer than most of mine.

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I'll be very glad when DVDs are finally dead and buried.

[Garrett Low]

Robert, if you put a chapter break at the correct place in DVDA you can have one long file. I've found on some older players having separate files for each chapter causes problems when trying to navigate back and forth. This isn't usually the case but I've had problems in the past.

Still, if all of your files are DVDA compliant, DVDA won't rerender. Rendering long videos is more efficient (on space) and will yield better quality if you use Vegas, especially since you can use two passes where as DVDA will only allow you a single pass render. On some really difficult material I found that DVDA has some bad mpeg artifacts and when rendered in Vegas I had none.

[Roberto Diaz]

maybe this isnt the problem but thought i'd mention it just in case...

i had copied a DVDA file from one project to use on another, and forgot that the original project had an extras folder of photos and video files for copying to a computer. well the new project still had that extras folder and so the resulting DVD was several hundred MB larger than the new video file (plus would've had the unrelated content had i not caught this).

[Robert Benda]

Well, I used Sony's native mpg-Architect codec, just lowered the bitrates. I tried both 9 separate files, and a different set of renders totalling 3 larger files. Neither worked out.

For instance, the 9 files version shows up as a total of 6.79 GB in Windows. Put into Architect, it shows up as close to 13 GB. Something similar with the fewer files, larger sizes.

I gave up and just did 2 DVDs. One with the complete ceremony, the other has highlights, stories, and their reception.

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I thought I had solved this issue before, and my Google-fu (and searching this board) gets me no where. Can't figure out the correct terms to use, I guess.

Next try is going to use a different (older) computer to do the same renders. See what happens. Maybe they're different. Or maybe I haven't had to stuff this much footage onto a DVD in a few years (darn Catholic weddings).

[Don Bloom]

Robert,
It doesn't matter how many chapters or files you render. What matters is the total length of time of all the files together. IOW if the total time is say 90 minutes and you have 9 chapters or 9 separate files that total 90 minutes the bitrate for a DVD would be MAX; 8. AVG 6.497 and minimum 2 using AC3 audio. Using PCM or WAV audio the AVG bitrate goes to 5.122. Quite a difference.
I routinely did 90 minutes and more on a single layer DVD with AC3 audio and never once had a problem with fitting it on to the DVD. This worked for material that was up to 180 minutes. Of course the quality of the 180 minute material on DVD wasn't as good as something shorter but generally that was only used by a client for TC logging.
What I'm getting at is if you use 9 files for example the EACH file has to be rendered using the same bitrate for what ever the overall time of the total is. Plus render each file to AC3.individually.
Hope that makes sense.