HDV to SD. Best method?

[Phil Hamilton]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Like the titling says, it's a digital zoom, performed by the NLE. However, you can see the artifacting immediately on the duck head in the camera convert file, long before the zoom occurs. It only becomes more visible in the zoom.

Based upon everything I've read in several forums I see absolutely no reason to let the camera downconvert your HDV footage. Just capture the HDV and get the best resolution possible and then and only then start messing with it. Of course this assumes your original footage is not 24p or 25p or something like that. I have the HDR-HC1 and two options - HDV M2T or downconverted AVI capture.

DSE - Would you agree for the most part on this or can you identify a situation where lettiing the camera down convert is the best option? ph

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Phil Hamilton

DSE - Would you agree for the most part on this or can you identify a situation where lettiing the camera down convert is the best option? ph

Well...If you're using FCP and don't have any scaling plugs...then I'd let the camera downconvert. FCP5 is better, but it's still not the greatest scaling tool out there...I haven't had an opportunity to play with my Avid Express HD yet to comment on whether that might be better as well.

[Phil Hamilton]

I forgot to mention that I am using Sony Vegas 6.0c. With that certainly capturing the HDV first seems the best way to go. ph

[Jim Rog]

Hello

why would anyone want to go from HD to SD? the benefit is?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Because there is no HD delivery method for the masses at this time. In a few months, yes. Today? No.

[Jim Rog]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Because there is no HD delivery method for the masses at this time. In a few months, yes. Today? No.

You mean the blue ray thing? But why don’t people just edit there footage then record it back to the camera? then just connect the camera to the TV and watch it.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Jim Rog

You mean the blue ray thing? But why don’t people just edit there footage then record it back to the camera? then just connect the camera to the TV and watch it.

Well....if the masses all had HDV cameras or decks, you're right. Why not just dupe a few thousand HDV tapes and send them to your friends?....
But the masses don't have HDV decks/players, so the currently most common means of delivering media is on DVD. And there is no way to deliver HD on a DVD to the masses right now. Therefore, a good recipe for downconverting HDV to SD is fairly important.

How is it that you're delivering HDV to clients?

[Jim Rog]

Hi

i don’t deliver to clients i just use the camera for personal use and some fun stuff and effects. So you mean when you go from HD to SD this reduces the file size and quality or just the size and keeps the same quality?

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Jim Rog

Hi

i don’t deliver to clients i just use the camera for personal use and some fun stuff and effects. So you mean when you go from HD to SD this reduces the file size and quality or just the size and keeps the same quality?

The reduction is "Global"...

The idea of the tricks that are advised if you check some of the threads on converting HD/HDV to SD/DVD, is to minimise the amount of degredation to the SD final during the render process.

That's why Cineform CFHD format or Gearshift's proxies are so important. If you still manage to achieve less than desirable results with downconverting to SD while using either a CFHD or Gearshift proxy Vegas project... you need to double check the settings for the template you are rendering to.

For yourself: this may not be so over-ridingly important, but for others it's important they come to grips with understanding the workflow philosophy behind what may appear at first like a recipe for brown smelly cookies, rather than improved renderred video quality.

Hope you're getting to learn some stuff along the way though!!

[Jim Rog]

Hi Steve

Yes I am learning slowly but it is taking me time there is so much to learn and when people don’t explain 24p 25p 50i 60i and this that and the other it makes it very difficult for me to understand what they are talking about. Before my fx1 i never did any editing effects at all or anything i just recorded and watched the normal footage back on the TV.

but this is a great site and with the right help i am getting there

Thanks

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Jim Rog

Hi Steve

Yes I am learning slowly but it is taking me time there is so much to learn and when people don’t explain 24p 25p 50i 60i and this that and the other it makes it very difficult for me to understand what they are talking about.
Thanks

Jim,
FWIW, "explaining" 24p, 25p, 50i, 60i literally could take a book.

Anything with "p" after it is "progressive scan" which is the future of all television displays. Anything with an "i" after it is "Interlaced" which is the current standard. Your FX1 only shoots "i" although it has some progressive qualities in the CF modes.
The number represents frames per second.
As far as 'explaining' the look of all of the above, it would be much more beneficial for you to test these out yourself so that not only are you seeing the diff first hand, but so that you understand the process. (and so that someone doesn't need to write a novel)

[Mark Bryant]

I'm just about to take the HDV plunge (Sony HC1 or A1), and have been reading this thread with great interest.

I'm not a pro... and it does seem easier to have the camera downconvert if the quality is still good.. but there is one point that seems important to me that I haven't seen mentioned as an advantage of working in HDV. If in a years time (or whenever) HDV production is more possible, I may want to reissue in a HD delivery format. If I work in Vegas in HDV, as well as creating my SD DVD now I can print to tape the edited work in HDV. So when a HDV delivery mechanism is available, creating a HD DVD (for example) will be easier. If I work in camera downconverted DV, I can't see an easy way to do this. Yes I'd still have the original HDV files, and I'd have the veg files, so maybe I could recreate the edits but I'm not sure how. Is this a valid point, or am missing something?

It is this reason, looking to the future, that I am planning to edit HDV (using one of the recommended methods).

Mark

[Michael Liebergot]

"I may want to reissue in a HD delivery format. If I work in Vegas in HDV, as well as creating my SD DVD... Yes I'd still have the original HDV files, and I'd have the veg files, so maybe I could recreate the edits but I'm not sure how. Is this a valid point, or am missing something?"

Mark what you would have to do is recepture the HDV tapes in their native MT2 format and switch out the DV files for the newly captured HDV files.

What would be beneficial would be to purchase GearShift from VASST.
You can then capture your video as Mt2 file (No in camera down conversion) then have GearShift render out a proxy video or Cineform Internediary codec and edit like normal in Vegas.
Then when you are ready to render, either render to standard DVD MPEG2 or have GearShift (Switch Gears) back to the original Mt2 files. Since you would have the original Mt2 files you can have Vegas and GearShift do this at any time down the road.

If you would rather, there is also Cineforms Connect HD, which will allow you to capture and convert on the fly to Cineforms Codec (keeping teh same resolution and color space as HDV, and thus, also avoiding having to capture and convert). However be warned, that the Cineform Interediary Codec is much larger than the original HDV of Proxy files.

[Mark Bryant]

Michael,

Thanks - I've downloaded Gearshift (and I don't even have my camcorder yet, ordering that today).

Mark

[Michael Liebergot]

Mark, good luck. And. BTW can you post your findings when you have your camcorder. I don't have a HD camcorder yet (A1 in the next couple of months), so i was curious how various systems do with editing usig GearShift and Vegas.

I know about the workflow, from a lot of reading, and preperation to go HD.