Cineform Connect HD Essential?

[Sean Seah]

Hi folks.I thought that Vegas 6 already provides HD editing capability until I read an article on VASST about Cineform Connect HD plugin. It seems that Connect HD is essential to convert the m2t transport files via an intermediate codec, Cineform, to avi for editing. After completion this can be reverted to HD. My question is,why cant Vegas perform HD editing since there is an option for downloading HD when you capture a video from the camcorder? Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

[Edward Troxel]

Vegas includes everything needed to edit HDV. A version of the Cineform codec is also included. The full purchase version adds more features but is not required for editing HDV.

[Sean Seah]

A...h thaz a relief. It could stop me from moving to HDV.Thanks Edward! Btw I learnt to do the number plate masking effect finally from yr newletters. Great job!

[Steve Crisdale]

Sean,
While it would be nice for Vegas to have all the HDV bells and whistles; the fact remains that to extract the BEST HDV performance from Vegas, you'll need to look too products such as ConnectHD and Gearshift.

The developers of these non-core appz can concentrate on refining the performance of their product in dealing specifically with HDV, where the Vegas development team must try to enhance the whole appz video capabilities - not just HDV...

There are actually a number of ways (other capture utilities) to get HDV into Vegas, but very few are as efficient as ConnectHD in how they do it - even the Cineform capability of Vegas 6 is not as efficient as the updated ConnectHD package, because Cineforms tech's are constantly refining their app. for maximum performance.

For the price, ConnectHD is one of the best pieces of software to be found for HDV camcorder owners.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Sean Seah

Hi folks.I thought that Vegas 6 already provides HD editing capability until I read an article on VASST about Cineform Connect HD plugin. It seems that Connect HD is essential to convert the m2t transport files via an intermediate codec, Cineform, to avi for editing. After completion this can be reverted to HD. My question is,why cant Vegas perform HD editing since there is an option for downloading HD when you capture a video from the camcorder? Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

Sean,
That article is from back when Vegas 5 was the only thing available, and doesn't cover Vegas 6 at all. I've just now added a disclaimer, it's hard to keep all the articles up to date.
As Edward and Steve mentioned, you'll want to use either CineForm or GearShift for your editing. Editing native HDV is painful and silly, not to mention difficult to color correct and work with at any accurate level. So, convert to either color-corrected DV proxies, or convert to CineForm after you capture your m2t files.

[Sean Seah]

Oic...thanks for the updates, Spot.So what you mean is the current Vegas6c only offers HD editing in native, which is a very difficult task as you mentioned below. Therefore it is better to get the 2 alternatives to convert HD to an intermidary codec for editing, thereafter reconverting it back to m2t, rite?

My next question is, how do we go on? As blueray is not ready, we have to render it to PAL/NTSC widescreen? After which we take this mpg2 to DVA3 for DVD burning? I noticed Vegas6 has the option to render as HDV 1080i.May I know how good is this? Will the wm player be able to play it?

(Sorri I'm quite ignorant able HD, still trying to find out!)

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Sean, Vegas 6 comes with the CineForm codec, but no converter. So, you either need to convert from the timeline, or use a tool like GearShift to do the conversions.
Whether or not you'll use the CineForm codec or a DV Proxy is entirely up to the speed of your computer.

for delivery, currently we're delivering most HDV as SD, but some are also delivered HDCAM. Yes, you'll be rendering to either NTSC or PAL for delivery formatting until we start seeing more delivery options, whether it's Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, HVD, or other hard-good delivery format. Too bad Windows screwed up and didn't license out for settops like they'd promised last year. We'd be watching WMV-HD right now off of regular DVD players.

[Sean Seah]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Sean, Vegas 6 comes with the CineForm codec, but no converter. So, you either need to convert from the timeline, or use a tool like GearShift to do the conversions.Whether or not you'll use the CineForm codec or a DV Proxy is entirely up to the speed of your computer.

Sorry I m a little confused now. So what does the cineform codec exactly do in Vegas 6 if there is no convertor?

Assuming I do not have a tool like Gearshift, what am I getting when I stream the footage from the HD cam? If it is m2t does that means I'm editing raw HD on the timeline? Therefore I need Gearshift to convert it to an intermediate codec for editing and reconversion to HD?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Sean,
You can edit the raw m2t's on the Vegas timeline, although there are a lot of reasons to not do so.
You can convert on the Vegas timeline without GearShift, it just takes longer and a little more attention needs to be paid to file management. You can convert to DV, CineForm, or several other formats without GearShift. So in other words, you don't *need* GearShift but it will make your life easier.

To convert to CineForm without GearShift, put your m2t files on the timeline, and choose "File/Render As" and then locate in the avi template, the CineForm/Intermediate templage for 1080i. You're good to go.

[Don Donatello]

question on gearshift?

does gearshift convert the files to cineforms "direct show" version file or "video for windows" version file ?

from cineform site:
Vegas only uses the Video for Windows version of the CineForm codec while HDLink uses the DirectShow version. The DirectShow version is a bit more sophisticated about the manner in which we can code our files, so we get approximately a 30% reduction in file size with HDLink. These smaller files also perform "faster" on the Vegas timeline. There is no quality disadvantage with the VfW codec, and the bitstreams are 100% compatible.

[Sean Seah]

Thanks Spot.. I get it now.

[Laurence Kingston]

Both Gearshift and ConnectHD are great tools and well worth having. Personally, I prefer the ConnectHD approach though. The workflow with ConnectHD is almost exactly like it is working with DV. The ConnectHD scene splitting works great. The Cinneform files alone are only slightly larger than the combination of M2T and proxy files. Cineform renders are much quicker than M2T renders because they smartrender. The quality of both approaches is about the same in the end. With M2T renders using Gearshift proxies you have at least one generation upon rendering. Working directly with Cineform, you have one generation upon capture, but because of smartrendering, no further degredation unless you are applying filters or some other change during the render. I've seen posts saying that working with M2T files directly avoids a generation, but in reality, both approaches are going to be at least second generation in the end.

[Sean Seah]

OH yes..this reminded me of another pt. I heard that HD doesnt split up the files like DV does. Is that true? Does HD connect & Gearshift does that?

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Sean Seah

OH yes..this reminded me of another pt. I heard that HD doesnt split up the files like DV does. Is that true? Does HD connect & Gearshift does that?

What do you mean.. "split up"?

Are you talking about seperate video and audio tracks?

or

The ability to make seperate clips from the recorded stream by using "scene detection"?

Either way it's a bizarre question... HDV isn't some new form of Voodoo that requires all new spells and incantations to achieve what DV is capable of.

The ability to capture as an unbroken or split-scene data stream is handled definitely by utilities such as Cineform's HDLink (which comes with ConnectHD and AspectHD).

Editing the audio and video streams as seperate entities is exactly the same for HDV as it is for DV in all the leading NLE's.

Gearshift is a utility that allows greater speed of editing by using proxy files of lower resolution to be edited, prior to their automatic replacement by the original m2t HDV files at render time. It also allows for speedy and accurate transposition of frame rate and format for specific needs.

Seems like you're getting all concerned over nothing - by listening/reading stuff from bimboes and dolts.

Do you really reckon Sony, JVC, Canon and Sharp would have been dumb enough to decide on a new video format that was unuseable?

Granted, there were early difficulties with some software having to be redesigned to work with a much BIGGER data stream, and slightly different data perameters. That was long enough ago, that it's the dim-dark-past from my perspective!!

It'll pay for you to educate yourself about the terminology and basic processes involved if you want to be serious about Digital Video in either it's DV or HD/HDV permutations.

Hopefully you now know that "splitting up" a HDV file in ANY FASHION, is totally possible and the options for doing so are becoming faster and more plentiful...

[Laurence Kingston]

The Cineform capture utilities split up the captures into scenes just like standard DV captures do. If you capture directly into a program like Vegas, you get one large M2T file.