Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends at DVinfo.net

Clive McLaughlin · January 8th, 2014, 02:59 PM

Definitely the hardest topic I've ever tried to create a title for. Here is the issue in full! Looking at the images will make my issue much clearer.

A track with a track effect applied has a 0% opacity clip. The track below (visible through the 0% opacity) has no effects applied. However - when the 0% clip above ends I see a change in the colours on the other visible track.

Can anyone explain to me why another track is being affected at all and how to fix it. No doubt you will ask why I have 0% opacity. Well its just how I do my workflow on multicam edits. I find its easier to change around things later. Perhaps you will tell me 'It just doesn't work like that!'. Which might be what i need to hear.

Please help! Do I need to go through my hour long timeline and delete my 0% opacity sections?

Gerald Webb · January 8th, 2014, 04:10 PM

Hi Clive,
Without seeing the actual veg file (upload if you want and Ill have a look).
My only guess is that you have applied the track fx as an adjustment layer, being that it is added after the composite tab (see pic).
Moving it before should fix this issue.... if thats what it is....

Clive McLaughlin · January 8th, 2014, 05:09 PM

Had a look Gerald, and i can see the difference having the effects before and after composite - but that's not solving my issue.

Basically I conclude that the opacity doesn't reduce the effects - only the clip itself - the effects still remain and seem to 'fall' onto whatever the next visible track is.

Gerald Webb · January 8th, 2014, 05:56 PM

Clive,
I cant reproduce what you're saying.
I just checked,
If track fx is placed before Composite, it does not affect lower tracks.
If track fx is placed after Composite, then it DOES affect lower tracks.
Do you have any other things happening that might come into play?

Christopher Young · January 9th, 2014, 03:15 AM

Clive ~

As Gerald says, can't replicate the problem here regardless of what I do. Visually can't see anything alter and nothing alters on the WFM / Vector. BTW what 'effect' do you have applied at track level on the top track?
Got me fascinated now.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Clive McLaughlin · January 9th, 2014, 06:16 AM

Hi guys. The effect i have applied is levels.

I found this to be true

"If track fx is placed before Composite, it does not affect lower tracks.
If track fx is placed after Composite, then it DOES affect lower tracks."

But for me, even when the fx is placed after Composite - it shows whilst there is a 0% opacity clip above, but reverts to the rule above when the 0% opacity clip ends.

I found that later on in the timeline this stopped being the case. It rather makes me think its a bug I'm experiencing.

In the end, it wasn't a huge hassle to just go back through and delete the 0% clips from the timeline. Theres no need for you to waste anymore of your time on it.

It is strange though! Thanks anyway!

Graham Bernard · January 9th, 2014, 07:06 AM

What version of VP and what Build?

G

Christopher Young · January 9th, 2014, 09:59 AM

Yes was able to replicate the issue. Indeed a strange one. "Why is it so?" as Prof Julius Sumner Miller used to say.

I have no idea but it occurs no matter what plugin is used. It appears that whatever FX is applied it will show thru on lower levels even though the uppermost track has full opacity applied. Maybe not a bug as technically the FX is still there and can obviously still function there even though the track involved is transparent. So the FX gets applied to the lower tracks that are visible, possible? Could be used as a tool maybe?

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney.

Jay Massengill · January 9th, 2014, 10:20 AM

To the Original Poster, remember you can also use the Mute command in the Switches section (not the track header mute) for any Video Event on the timeline that you want to keep in place for sync and possible later modification, but don't want it to show at that particular time.

Could be a bumper sticker: "Mute, It's Not Just For Audio!"

Graham Bernard · January 9th, 2014, 10:53 AM

Nope, no repro here. The Rule is correct for me:

"If track fx is placed before Composite, it does not affect lower tracks.
If track fx is placed after Composite, then it DOES affect lower tracks."

G

Clive McLaughlin · January 9th, 2014, 02:20 PM

I'm glad somebody else replicated it. I guess it just means my edit technique needs to change.

I found it easy because you simply 'split' and reduce the opacity because you don't yet know when the next 'split' is going to be for that camera angle to be used again. It just means when i make the split to reintroduce the camera angle, I have to delete the unused section in between.

Jay, I see the mute option - but is there a shortcut? Right clicking > Properties > check Mute is not quite as swift as dragging the opacity down...

Christopher Young · January 9th, 2014, 07:56 PM

Must admit though I am curious to know why you are doing multi-cam this way when Vegas has good multi-cam capability built in?

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

January 8th, 2014, 02:59 PM	#1
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Definitely the hardest topic I've ever tried to create a title for. Here is the issue in full! Looking at the images will make my issue much clearer. A track with a track effect applied has a 0% opacity clip. The track below (visible through the 0% opacity) has no effects applied. However - when the 0% clip above ends I see a change in the colours on the other visible track. Can anyone explain to me why another track is being affected at all and how to fix it. No doubt you will ask why I have 0% opacity. Well its just how I do my workflow on multicam edits. I find its easier to change around things later. Perhaps you will tell me 'It just doesn't work like that!'. Which might be what i need to hear. Please help! Do I need to go through my hour long timeline and delete my 0% opacity sections? Attached Thumbnails

January 8th, 2014, 04:10 PM	#2
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Hi Clive, Without seeing the actual veg file (upload if you want and Ill have a look). My only guess is that you have applied the track fx as an adjustment layer, being that it is added after the composite tab (see pic). Moving it before should fix this issue.... if thats what it is.... Attached Thumbnails __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo Last edited by Gerald Webb; January 8th, 2014 at 05:47 PM.

January 8th, 2014, 05:09 PM	#3
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Had a look Gerald, and i can see the difference having the effects before and after composite - but that's not solving my issue. Basically I conclude that the opacity doesn't reduce the effects - only the clip itself - the effects still remain and seem to 'fall' onto whatever the next visible track is.

January 8th, 2014, 05:56 PM	#4
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Clive, I cant reproduce what you're saying. I just checked, If track fx is placed before Composite, it does not affect lower tracks. If track fx is placed after Composite, then it DOES affect lower tracks. Do you have any other things happening that might come into play? __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo

January 9th, 2014, 03:15 AM	#5
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,578	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Clive ~ As Gerald says, can't replicate the problem here regardless of what I do. Visually can't see anything alter and nothing alters on the WFM / Vector. BTW what 'effect' do you have applied at track level on the top track? Got me fascinated now. Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney

January 9th, 2014, 06:16 AM	#6
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Hi guys. The effect i have applied is levels. I found this to be true "If track fx is placed before Composite, it does not affect lower tracks. If track fx is placed after Composite, then it DOES affect lower tracks." But for me, even when the fx is placed after Composite - it shows whilst there is a 0% opacity clip above, but reverts to the rule above when the 0% opacity clip ends. I found that later on in the timeline this stopped being the case. It rather makes me think its a bug I'm experiencing. In the end, it wasn't a huge hassle to just go back through and delete the 0% clips from the timeline. Theres no need for you to waste anymore of your time on it. It is strange though! Thanks anyway!

January 9th, 2014, 07:06 AM	#7
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends What version of VP and what Build? G

January 9th, 2014, 09:59 AM	#8
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,578	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Yes was able to replicate the issue. Indeed a strange one. "Why is it so?" as Prof Julius Sumner Miller used to say. I have no idea but it occurs no matter what plugin is used. It appears that whatever FX is applied it will show thru on lower levels even though the uppermost track has full opacity applied. Maybe not a bug as technically the FX is still there and can obviously still function there even though the track involved is transparent. So the FX gets applied to the lower tracks that are visible, possible? Could be used as a tool maybe? Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney.

January 9th, 2014, 10:20 AM	#9
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends To the Original Poster, remember you can also use the Mute command in the Switches section (not the track header mute) for any Video Event on the timeline that you want to keep in place for sync and possible later modification, but don't want it to show at that particular time. Could be a bumper sticker: "Mute, It's Not Just For Audio!"

January 9th, 2014, 10:53 AM	#10
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Nope, no repro here. The Rule is correct for me: "If track fx is placed before Composite, it does not affect lower tracks. If track fx is placed after Composite, then it DOES affect lower tracks." G

January 9th, 2014, 02:20 PM	#11
Clive McLaughlin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Belfast Posts: 823	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends I'm glad somebody else replicated it. I guess it just means my edit technique needs to change. I found it easy because you simply 'split' and reduce the opacity because you don't yet know when the next 'split' is going to be for that camera angle to be used again. It just means when i make the split to reintroduce the camera angle, I have to delete the unused section in between. Jay, I see the mute option - but is there a shortcut? Right clicking > Properties > check Mute is not quite as swift as dragging the opacity down...

January 9th, 2014, 07:56 PM	#12
Christopher Young Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 1,578	Re: Effects issue when 0% opacity track ends Must admit though I am curious to know why you are doing multi-cam this way when Vegas has good multi-cam capability built in? Chris Young CYV Productions Sydney