Sony FDR-AX1

[Ron Evans]

Originally Posted by Antonie Koen

..

Apart from the ability to crop and pan with the AX1, is there any other reason to go with this cam over the PMW 150?

Crop and pan is my only reason. What do you want to do with your new camera ?

Ron Evans

[Antonie Koen]

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

Crop and pan is my only reason. What do you want to do with your new camera ?

Ron Evans

Hi Ron. The camera is primarily for studio work (Interviews, green screen work, etc) with the option of doing some run and gun stuff. My main concern is ease of edit and getting each job out as soon as possible. Am I to expect teething problems with the codec of a new camera like the AX1? I can live without the crop and pan. From experience I tend not to jump on new technology too quickly because of teething problems.

[Ron Evans]

Doesn't look like you need FDR-AX1. What camera do you use now ?

Ron Evans

[Robert Garvey]

Well I have just ordered one.

Seems like just the cam I have been waiting for to replace my Canon XHA1. I'm a stills photog and as is becoming the norm nowadays, often have to shoot 'b' roll. Often shooting aerials of rigs and offshore platforms so this looks great, 60/50P for a smoother aerial shot, Pal or NTSC switch for AU or US clients. Relatively high data rate for the downscaled 1080P at 50 Mbps. XQD cards that look the goods at high transfer rates and prices dropping (32 gig @ less then $100 at B&H) and other makers coming on board. Smallish form factor, inbuildt NDs. Reasonable lens quality and wide angle. Flexible audio recording. Sony layout. Was considering the NEX-EA50 but put off by the lack of ND's and the feeling that the AX-1 will be a more robust unit.

AND 4K!!

I have not got it (the camera) as yet so I am sure there will be some problems and issues, especially trans-coding the files.
I understand the small sensor issue and the 4:2:0 colour space and log gop files, however, am just starting a four + year corporate project and have the feeling that by project end the 4K will be the norm :)

[Leslie Wand]

robert, please keep us informed and if possible give us a 'review' of the camera when you get it. i know there's a great many of us z5'ers thinking this might just be the next step....

[James Larkey]

I have had mine a few days from Crutchfield. The original 4k files look really nice but when I render to a bluray file it does not look so great, as there is a lot of aliasing. I use a Sony EX1R, and a canon XA20 and can render very nice blurays from those cameras.

I use Sony Vegas 12 for editing and I tried using the same settings to render to bluray as I did with those cameras for the Sony AX1.

I typically set the Vegas project settings to upper field first and then interpolate fields before rendering for best bluray quality. When I do this with the AX1, I am not pleased. I have dialed down the sharpness from factory 0 to minus 3 and it helped slightly withth aliasing but not much.

The camera is very nice and produces great images, I just cannot get the blu ray files to be of nice quality,
Any recommendations on Sony Vegas settings? I usually render to Sony AVC blu ray but have tried mpeg2 as well with the avc file looking noticeably better.

James

[Mark OConnell]

Try setting the fields to none, or progressive, whatever the option is in Vegas. You should be shooting progressive footage. No fields.

[James Larkey]

Thank you, I have tried that as well. The canon xa20 also shoots progressive but after I edit, I have to select field order to "upper field first" and deinterlace to "interpolate fields" to render the best blurays. Leaving it at progressive and deinterlace to "none" produces lesser quality.

For the AX1, I have tried both progressive, upper field first, lower field first etc.. and cannot get equal quality of even the xa20 bluray files. At this point I am just experimenting. The original AX1 files are pristine.

James

[Mark OConnell]

How are you scaling down from 4K to HD?

[Alister Chapman]

The problem is that you can't easily apply any form of interpolation to an interlaced source as in any given field, every other line is missing so the interpolation doesn't work. Even if you do try to interpolate as there is motion between every other line the interpolation still fails or is less than satisfactory. You really need to be shooting progressive.

For the very best results I recommend shooting at 60p this will eliminate the field issues during down conversion and each of the 60 frames will be down converted into one of the 60 fields required. Then you need to ensure that the downconversion includes an anti-aliasing process such as bilinear interpolation otherwise you will have jagged edges and aliasing. If you don't have any control over the interpolation try adding a 2 or 3 pixel blur to the 4K footage prior to down converting. It sounds counter intuitive to blur the picture before down conversion but it's actually very effective.

The other final consideration is that the cameras sharpening circuits are tailored for 4K so they have little effect at HD. You mat need to add a small amount of sharpening to the down converted HD to compensate for this.

see this: Getting SD from HD and the problems of oversampling. | XDCAM-USER.COM
and this: Getting good SD from an HD camera. | XDCAM-USER.COM

[James Larkey]

Thank you all for your advice. I did in fact try to add a little sharpening even before I read your post with no improvement.. I am shooting in 60p and there is still an excessive amount of aliasing when rendering to bluray. I am rendering to sony avc bluray preset with original file settings at progressive as I am shooting at 60p. Since there was too much aliasing, I have just been experimenting with other settings with no luck.

When rendering to a non-bluray file such as a progressive mp4 file for the internet, the results are perfect.
I really like the camera but I primarily purchased it to produce amazing blurays but am having no success. I may keep trying a few more days before sending it back to Crutchfield.

Alister, thank you for providing the informative links, I am going to try to use the flicker filter. I know I have that option in Sony DVD Architect.

Thanks,
James

[James Larkey]

double post

[Mark OConnell]

Just a thought, have you tried rendering to an intermediate file, like ProRes HQ or whatever, and making your Bluray from that?

[James Larkey]

I have not tried that yet. I probably will not attempt that, I video airplane shows and if I have to render a 2 hour project once and do it again to convert to blu ray, then I prefer to just stick to HD cameras for the moment.

It is a nice camera and the problem may lie with the conversion of the two resolutions so I do not blame the camera.

Overall a nice camera, the only two issues I have is difficulty to convert to acceptable quality blu ray and that fact that the the camera does not hold fixed aperture across its 20X lens.

The results have been the same editing in Adobe Premiere Pro.(bad aliasing), a few more days of trying and I will reluctantly send it back as the original files are the best images I've seen from a camera at this price range. (in good light).

James

[Ron Evans]

Clearly scaling is the issue and have not found Vegas scaling to be that great. I have just got my FDR-AX1 this afternoon so have not had time to play with it too much. Will record some clips tomorrow and see how it performs in Vegas and Edius. My expectation is Edius downscaling will be better.

Ron Evans