DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? at DVinfo.net

Yousef Sheikh · September 24th, 2013, 07:23 AM

Hello all.

I'm using DVDA Studio 5 and wonder if I'm missing a simple option or am just asking it to do the impossible.

Part of my current project involves nine LPCM audio tracks for which I would like to have some accompanying video. I've put together a couple of short videos and would like to use one or the other for each audio track.

Is there a way of doing this without having to bring in each video multiple times? i.e. can I just store each video on the disc once and when one of the audio tracks is played it plays the video for the duration of the track? There is unlikely to be enough room on the disc to have multiple instances of each video.

The more I think about this, the less likely it seems but I would really appreciate any advice anyone might have.

Juris Lielpeteris · September 24th, 2013, 08:03 AM

You need to assemble the required length of the video and audio in Vegas. DVDA is not a video editing software.

Ron Evans · September 24th, 2013, 09:16 AM

Yes you can do what you want in DVDA. You need to add the movie multiple times to the menu screen and name for each of the audio pieces, add the audio for each of these files and then use the video trim markers to line up with the audio that you would insert each time. DVDA will only count the video file once. Of course the audio files will be separate. I assume the video file will have no audio. You will be restricted of course to the total length of the DVD and data rate used for encoding.

Set the end action to either play all or go back to main menu for next selection.

Ron Evans

Yousef Sheikh · September 24th, 2013, 01:09 PM

That is brilliant - thank you very much. I did wonder whether the programme would be clever enough to realize that the same video file was being re-used.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Yousef Sheikh · September 24th, 2013, 02:57 PM

This seems to be working fine and each audio track plays in order with the appropriate video clip.

I wonder if I could ask for help with one remaining problem: during play, clicking the "next" button has no effect even though I haven't disabled it. Ideally, I would want to be able to click from one song to the next without going via the menu.

The compilation and playlist features don't seem to offer what I need. It seems odd that the project 'knows' what order to play the files in when left to play them through but won't let me jump to the next via during play. Am I missing something really simple again here?

Ron Evans · September 24th, 2013, 03:51 PM

Unfortunately the next button will only work for chapters. You have individual video files with no chapters so they will by default play in the order they were created on the menu page or return to the menu page. If you want to have it so that the next button will work then they will have to be all one video file with chapters for the audio selection. At least that is my understanding.

Ron Evans

Yousef Sheikh · September 24th, 2013, 04:24 PM

Ah, I feared this would be the case. A small price to pay for the gains in terms of disc space, though.

Thanks again for the reply.

Yousef Sheikh · September 25th, 2013, 02:09 PM

One (hopefully) last related question.

Another part of this project has a 38 minute LPCM audio track for which I have inserted chapter points and imported a single image which is to stay on screen throughout.

DVDA is rendering this image as a 38 minute long MPEG which is coming in at over 1GB and making the overall project too big for a dual layer disc. The original image is only a 20MB .tif.

Is there any way of keeping the image on-screen throughout without having to turn it into a video file that matches the length of the audio?

Ron Evans · September 25th, 2013, 02:51 PM

How did you do this ? Did you drag the audio track to the timeline ? Then set chapters in the timeline ? Did you then right click in the menu screen and " set background " and select your image ? What were the properties set for the DVD ?

Ron Evans

Yousef Sheikh · September 25th, 2013, 03:27 PM

That's exactly what I did: dragged-and-dropped the audio in as one long file, added the chapter markers and then right clicked the video track and chose "set video/image".

And another problem has emerged unfortunately: when I check the folder that I saved the prepared DVD to, the audio files that I mentioned in my very first post above have all been rendered as separate .vobs, with the video saved separately each time - exactly what I was trying to avoid. I'm not sure if I did something wrong or if we were perhaps talking at cross purposes.

The DVD properties are set as:

Format - DVD
Target media 8.5GB
Video format MPEG-2
Bit rate 8.000 (although my main feature is at 9.8)
16:9
720x480
29.97 (but I've set everything for 24p)
Audio AC3 (but other audio formats are used too)

My content is:

1) 70mins of concert footage: MPEG2 NTSC 24p at 9.8 Mbps with 48kHz, 16bit LPCM audio
2) around 45 mins of 96kHz 24 bit LPCM audio - 10 tracks which I've tried to link to two short videos as discussed above (dropped the video component of these to 5 Mbps)
3) 38 mins of 48kHz 16bit LPCM audio - one long file with chapter marks, I'd like one photo to display throughout
A4) short photo compilation - about 3mins
5) Two short (four mins each) videos MPEG2 NTSC 24p 8 Mbps with AC3 audio
6) one 45-second animated menu with sound (24MB in total)
7) five menues of around 0.2MB each
8) a sort of intro splash thing of around 23.5MB

When I render this, it is coming in at 9.31GB - of which 851MB is the still picture accompanying number (3) above and another significant chunk being the two circa 250MB clips which are used five times each in (2) above.

If there is any way of streamlining the use of these particular pieces of media, I'd be a very happy man.

Ron Evans · September 25th, 2013, 04:16 PM

9.8 is too high for reliable playback on a burned disc. I would limit to 8. With the range of content you want to put on this DVD I think doing it in Vegas would be a lot easier. Render as a DVDArchitect encode.

If you want to present menus as separate video you can do it in the way you have learned but you will have just one rendered file from Vegas. You may have to decide on the parameters for the audio though. At least then the chapter marks will move as you originally wanted !!! Place separate files on the menu screen if you want to return to the menu at the end of each section and use next to shift to markers within a file.

You can insert empty buttons and define actions too so that you can go to any point you want from the main menu.

Ron Evans

Yousef Sheikh · September 25th, 2013, 04:59 PM

Interesting - I didn't realize that there was scope to do some of this authoring actually within Vegas. I'll have to read up on this - I've no idea how I would maintain my menu structure (and hidden menu) without using DVDA.

Before I do that, I'll see how things look and size-up at 8Mbps. It's not going to be a burned disc but if the quality drop is minimal and the fliesize is such that I can fit all the content on, it'll be an acceptable compromise.

Thanks again for your time and advice.

Don Bloom · September 25th, 2013, 06:39 PM

Yousef,
As you know Vegas is not an authoring program but an editing program which can be used to author menus for DVDs. However the actual authoring, final prep and burning takes place in DVDA and while DVDA can in fact be used to render material for authoring it is far better and more accurate to render to MPEG in Vegas.
I have never and will never use a top bitrate of more than 8 and I have the low side set to 2 with the AVG. bitrate set for the time length of the video and I have burned literally thousands of DVDs and have perhaps 1 handful that wouldn't play in the clients player due to it's age and I always use AC3 audio since it is a smaller package and allows for a higher bitrate.
Honestly, I've never heard a problem or difference in the LCPM vs AC3 even though the AC3 is more compressed.
Ron hit it on the head. Do it the way he mentioned and you won't go wrong.

Ron Evans · September 25th, 2013, 08:10 PM

As Don has stated encoding from Vegas is much preferred to DVDArchitect. There is more control and choice for the encode. If you set the markers in Vegas and check the box in the encode window, the markers will be embedded in the encoded file and available when you import the file in DVDArchitect. I agree with Don that for a SD DVD AC3 audio is preferred. If you are going to make a Bluray then there is likely enough room to use LPCM audio.

After importing into DVDArchitect , clicking on the movie icon will normally show the movie in the timeline with the markers. This way you can set up accurate marker positions in Vegas that will become chapter marks in DVDArchitect

Ron Evans

Yousef Sheikh · September 26th, 2013, 07:09 AM

Thanks for the further replies, Ron and Don.

I understand completely about the AC3 issue but as this is primarily a music project, I'd like to keep the audio uncompressed, not least as a selling point. Of course the bonus audio-only 96kHz/24bit material has to stay in that format as it is unavailable elsewhere in high resolution and is being added as a selling point in itself.

So I'm a bit stuck with that one.

I've re-encoded the main feature in Vegas with a VBR of 4.5 - 9.6 with an average of 8 and the filesize is much more reasonable. I cheated a bit and just renamed the files so that DVDA would just substitute them into place: I've spent so long on this project that any little shortcut is welcome and I can't face having to build up my menu structure from scratch.

In any event, this is only a test version and there may well be further edits needed after the client has viewed it. I'll be following your advice re inserting the markers in Vegas should this come to pass.

One thing that I found when I was Googling the various issues I was encountering was a suggestion that the combined bitrate of the original 9.8Mbps video and LPCM audio would have been too great. And yet DVDA didn't generate any warnings about this - is this another potential stumbling block for me?

Thank you again for all the replies - you are making this far less stressful for me than it might have been.

September 24th, 2013, 07:23 AM	#1
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? Hello all. I'm using DVDA Studio 5 and wonder if I'm missing a simple option or am just asking it to do the impossible. Part of my current project involves nine LPCM audio tracks for which I would like to have some accompanying video. I've put together a couple of short videos and would like to use one or the other for each audio track. Is there a way of doing this without having to bring in each video multiple times? i.e. can I just store each video on the disc once and when one of the audio tracks is played it plays the video for the duration of the track? There is unlikely to be enough room on the disc to have multiple instances of each video. The more I think about this, the less likely it seems but I would really appreciate any advice anyone might have.

September 24th, 2013, 08:03 AM	#2
Juris Lielpeteris Major Player Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Riga, Latvija, EU Posts: 292	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? You need to assemble the required length of the video and audio in Vegas. DVDA is not a video editing software.

September 24th, 2013, 09:16 AM	#3
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? Yes you can do what you want in DVDA. You need to add the movie multiple times to the menu screen and name for each of the audio pieces, add the audio for each of these files and then use the video trim markers to line up with the audio that you would insert each time. DVDA will only count the video file once. Of course the audio files will be separate. I assume the video file will have no audio. You will be restricted of course to the total length of the DVD and data rate used for encoding. Set the end action to either play all or go back to main menu for next selection. Ron Evans

September 24th, 2013, 01:09 PM	#4
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? That is brilliant - thank you very much. I did wonder whether the programme would be clever enough to realize that the same video file was being re-used. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

September 24th, 2013, 02:57 PM	#5
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? This seems to be working fine and each audio track plays in order with the appropriate video clip. I wonder if I could ask for help with one remaining problem: during play, clicking the "next" button has no effect even though I haven't disabled it. Ideally, I would want to be able to click from one song to the next without going via the menu. The compilation and playlist features don't seem to offer what I need. It seems odd that the project 'knows' what order to play the files in when left to play them through but won't let me jump to the next via during play. Am I missing something really simple again here?

September 24th, 2013, 03:51 PM	#6
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? Unfortunately the next button will only work for chapters. You have individual video files with no chapters so they will by default play in the order they were created on the menu page or return to the menu page. If you want to have it so that the next button will work then they will have to be all one video file with chapters for the audio selection. At least that is my understanding. Ron Evans

September 24th, 2013, 04:24 PM	#7
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? Ah, I feared this would be the case. A small price to pay for the gains in terms of disc space, though. Thanks again for the reply.

September 25th, 2013, 02:09 PM	#8
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? One (hopefully) last related question. Another part of this project has a 38 minute LPCM audio track for which I have inserted chapter points and imported a single image which is to stay on screen throughout. DVDA is rendering this image as a 38 minute long MPEG which is coming in at over 1GB and making the overall project too big for a dual layer disc. The original image is only a 20MB .tif. Is there any way of keeping the image on-screen throughout without having to turn it into a video file that matches the length of the audio?

September 25th, 2013, 02:51 PM	#9
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? How did you do this ? Did you drag the audio track to the timeline ? Then set chapters in the timeline ? Did you then right click in the menu screen and " set background " and select your image ? What were the properties set for the DVD ? Ron Evans

September 25th, 2013, 03:27 PM	#10
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? That's exactly what I did: dragged-and-dropped the audio in as one long file, added the chapter markers and then right clicked the video track and chose "set video/image". And another problem has emerged unfortunately: when I check the folder that I saved the prepared DVD to, the audio files that I mentioned in my very first post above have all been rendered as separate .vobs, with the video saved separately each time - exactly what I was trying to avoid. I'm not sure if I did something wrong or if we were perhaps talking at cross purposes. The DVD properties are set as: Format - DVD Target media 8.5GB Video format MPEG-2 Bit rate 8.000 (although my main feature is at 9.8) 16:9 720x480 29.97 (but I've set everything for 24p) Audio AC3 (but other audio formats are used too) My content is: 1) 70mins of concert footage: MPEG2 NTSC 24p at 9.8 Mbps with 48kHz, 16bit LPCM audio 2) around 45 mins of 96kHz 24 bit LPCM audio - 10 tracks which I've tried to link to two short videos as discussed above (dropped the video component of these to 5 Mbps) 3) 38 mins of 48kHz 16bit LPCM audio - one long file with chapter marks, I'd like one photo to display throughout A4) short photo compilation - about 3mins 5) Two short (four mins each) videos MPEG2 NTSC 24p 8 Mbps with AC3 audio 6) one 45-second animated menu with sound (24MB in total) 7) five menues of around 0.2MB each 8) a sort of intro splash thing of around 23.5MB When I render this, it is coming in at 9.31GB - of which 851MB is the still picture accompanying number (3) above and another significant chunk being the two circa 250MB clips which are used five times each in (2) above. If there is any way of streamlining the use of these particular pieces of media, I'd be a very happy man.

September 25th, 2013, 04:16 PM	#11
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? 9.8 is too high for reliable playback on a burned disc. I would limit to 8. With the range of content you want to put on this DVD I think doing it in Vegas would be a lot easier. Render as a DVDArchitect encode. If you want to present menus as separate video you can do it in the way you have learned but you will have just one rendered file from Vegas. You may have to decide on the parameters for the audio though. At least then the chapter marks will move as you originally wanted !!! Place separate files on the menu screen if you want to return to the menu at the end of each section and use next to shift to markers within a file. You can insert empty buttons and define actions too so that you can go to any point you want from the main menu. Ron Evans

September 25th, 2013, 04:59 PM	#12
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? Interesting - I didn't realize that there was scope to do some of this authoring actually within Vegas. I'll have to read up on this - I've no idea how I would maintain my menu structure (and hidden menu) without using DVDA. Before I do that, I'll see how things look and size-up at 8Mbps. It's not going to be a burned disc but if the quality drop is minimal and the fliesize is such that I can fit all the content on, it'll be an acceptable compromise. Thanks again for your time and advice.

September 25th, 2013, 06:39 PM	#13
Don Bloom Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,609	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? Yousef, As you know Vegas is not an authoring program but an editing program which can be used to author menus for DVDs. However the actual authoring, final prep and burning takes place in DVDA and while DVDA can in fact be used to render material for authoring it is far better and more accurate to render to MPEG in Vegas. I have never and will never use a top bitrate of more than 8 and I have the low side set to 2 with the AVG. bitrate set for the time length of the video and I have burned literally thousands of DVDs and have perhaps 1 handful that wouldn't play in the clients player due to it's age and I always use AC3 audio since it is a smaller package and allows for a higher bitrate. Honestly, I've never heard a problem or difference in the LCPM vs AC3 even though the AC3 is more compressed. Ron hit it on the head. Do it the way he mentioned and you won't go wrong. __________________ What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer. Don

September 25th, 2013, 08:10 PM	#14
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? As Don has stated encoding from Vegas is much preferred to DVDArchitect. There is more control and choice for the encode. If you set the markers in Vegas and check the box in the encode window, the markers will be embedded in the encoded file and available when you import the file in DVDArchitect. I agree with Don that for a SD DVD AC3 audio is preferred. If you are going to make a Bluray then there is likely enough room to use LPCM audio. After importing into DVDArchitect , clicking on the movie icon will normally show the movie in the timeline with the markers. This way you can set up accurate marker positions in Vegas that will become chapter marks in DVDArchitect Ron Evans

September 26th, 2013, 07:09 AM	#15
Yousef Sheikh New Boot Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 19	Re: DVD Architect - multiple items using same media? Thanks for the further replies, Ron and Don. I understand completely about the AC3 issue but as this is primarily a music project, I'd like to keep the audio uncompressed, not least as a selling point. Of course the bonus audio-only 96kHz/24bit material has to stay in that format as it is unavailable elsewhere in high resolution and is being added as a selling point in itself. So I'm a bit stuck with that one. I've re-encoded the main feature in Vegas with a VBR of 4.5 - 9.6 with an average of 8 and the filesize is much more reasonable. I cheated a bit and just renamed the files so that DVDA would just substitute them into place: I've spent so long on this project that any little shortcut is welcome and I can't face having to build up my menu structure from scratch. In any event, this is only a test version and there may well be further edits needed after the client has viewed it. I'll be following your advice re inserting the markers in Vegas should this come to pass. One thing that I found when I was Googling the various issues I was encountering was a suggestion that the combined bitrate of the original 9.8Mbps video and LPCM audio would have been too great. And yet DVDA didn't generate any warnings about this - is this another potential stumbling block for me? Thank you again for all the replies - you are making this far less stressful for me than it might have been.