Where do you think is the bottleneck? at DVinfo.net

Larry Secrest · September 27th, 2012, 09:14 AM

Hello,
I'm not a pro so I'm still using Vegas 7 on a machine I built back in 2007 conformed to the then specification of the videoguys. I have the recommended MoBo of that time, a Asus P5W DH de luxe, a quad core intel Q6700, and 4 gig of very good corsair ram on XP pro.

When I play HDV footage out of my canon XH A1 it's only smooth and playing normally when I play it in Preview. It's very jerky when I use GOOD, even in the half mode and forget about BEST.

Same when I play the same footage in the NEO HDV Cineform codec. I just installed a very fast drive from which I play all my clip, a WEWD2002FAEX - Western Digital 2TB WD2002FAEX Caviar Black SATA Hard Drive. Reading from that drive doesn't improve anything. Still jerky other than when playing in PREVIEW MODE.

So, where's the bottle neck?

Should I call it a computer and built an I7 based machine in 64bits with Vegas 12?
Short of building a new machine, what would you do to be able to play on GOOD MODE without being jerky?
Thanks
Larry

Jeff Harper · September 27th, 2012, 12:25 PM

Probably your processor is the issue. Short of a new processor, not much you can do. Your Caviar black drive, by the way, is not a "very fast drive", but is a nice, but average drive. I have four of them, they are great, but not "fast" so to speak, but I doubt your drive is the issue anyway.

Your machine is just outdated, that's all, for HD playback in Vegas at higher quality settings. Vegas playback is dependent on the processor mainly.

Larry Secrest · September 27th, 2012, 12:43 PM

Ok, yes, I agree, it's not as fast as SSD, but so much faster than the drive I have.
I guess you're right, my machine is outdated.

Jeff Harper · September 27th, 2012, 01:00 PM

There are 10K rpm drives and 15K SAS drives which I also have, then the SSD drives, so there is room between the 7200 rpm drive you have and the fastest SSD drive.

At those speeds it just doesn't matter after a certain point. Same holds true with your 7200 rpm drive, for ordinary useage, it should be fine. When I purchased my first two Caviar Black 1TB drives what seems like many years ago, I was very happy with them, they are great drives, well built.

If you're drive is full, or even close to half full, it can affect your performance also, so make sure your video is located on a dedicated drive for video storage, not on one that is cluttered with a lot of other stuff.

You can also use proxies to improve playback, which Vegas 12 offers. You could get by without a new machine if the proxy feature of Vegas 12 is useable. I just don't know enough about it yet to recommend it.

Larry Secrest · September 27th, 2012, 02:35 PM

Do you think a 15000 rpm drive would do the trick?

Jeff Harper · September 27th, 2012, 04:29 PM

No, I think you need to upgrade, or go with Vegas 12 and try the built in proxy feature. The 15k drives are overkill, and require a special controller. I shouldn't have mentioned all of the drives, that was a distraction from what you probably need to focus on.

If you upgrade your PC, you might pick up a Velociraptor 10K just for kicks, but your present Caviar Black drive, as long as it's not your OS drive as well, should be fine.

Larry Secrest · September 27th, 2012, 07:04 PM

Do you think Vegas 12 could be run on the processor I have? I think Vegas won't even run on Windows XP 32 bit.
argh, I'm going to have to upgrade but for what, to just be able to actually play the clips in the BEST MODE instead of preview?

Jeff Harper · September 27th, 2012, 09:24 PM

No, you're right, you probably should upgrade your hardware first. I feel your pain. I just upgraded my processor and mobo and ram at great expense, very expensive to do.

Ron Evans · September 28th, 2012, 06:56 AM

You should be able to upgrade you motherboard, processor and memory to an Intel i7 for about $800 if you do it yourself. A little bit more if you get a PC shop to do it for you. My local PC shop has i7 3770 for $380, Gigabyte motherboard for $160 and 16G of DDR3 RAM for $80. Did a similar upgrade myself last year from a similar machine to yours. You will see a big increase in performance even keeping all the rest of your system the same.

Ron

Bill Koehler · September 28th, 2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Secrest

Do you think Vegas 12 could be run on the processor I have? I think Vegas won't even run on Windows XP 32 bit.
argh, I'm going to have to upgrade but for what, to just be able to actually play the clips in the BEST MODE instead of preview?

1. The Q6700 is a 64 bit processor, so Vegas 12 will run on it. I have been running Windows7x64 and Vegas 11 64 bit for some time on an Intel Q6600 + Radeon HD 6670 Video card. Fully functional, but load up a 4 multicam AVCHD shoot in multicam mode and the the preview update rate is under 2 frames / second.

2. Going to Vegas 12, running on a 32 bit OS is not on the option list as Vegas 12 is ONLY a 64 bit app and therefore has to run on a 64 bit OS. If it makes you feel any better, or worse, Adobe made this transition when they released CS 5.

I recently went from an Intel 2.4 GHz Q6600 + Radeon HD 6670 Video card to an Intel 3.5 Ghz 3770K + Radeon HD 7700 based system, so I know whereof I speak...Remember to also pick an up to date GPU card for decode/rendering accelleration. Besides getting an excellent preview experience, I also get *significantly* shorter render times.

If you had asked this question a month ago I would have suggested going to Vegas 11 (supports GPU accelleration) and getting a current GPU for that GPU accelleration. As it is the bare minimum you can get by with now is (a) Install a current GPU (b) Upgrade the OS to 64 bit (c) Get the current Vegas 12.

September 27th, 2012, 09:14 AM	#1
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Where do you think is the bottleneck? Hello, I'm not a pro so I'm still using Vegas 7 on a machine I built back in 2007 conformed to the then specification of the videoguys. I have the recommended MoBo of that time, a Asus P5W DH de luxe, a quad core intel Q6700, and 4 gig of very good corsair ram on XP pro. When I play HDV footage out of my canon XH A1 it's only smooth and playing normally when I play it in Preview. It's very jerky when I use GOOD, even in the half mode and forget about BEST. Same when I play the same footage in the NEO HDV Cineform codec. I just installed a very fast drive from which I play all my clip, a WEWD2002FAEX - Western Digital 2TB WD2002FAEX Caviar Black SATA Hard Drive. Reading from that drive doesn't improve anything. Still jerky other than when playing in PREVIEW MODE. So, where's the bottle neck? Should I call it a computer and built an I7 based machine in 64bits with Vegas 12? Short of building a new machine, what would you do to be able to play on GOOD MODE without being jerky? Thanks Larry

September 27th, 2012, 12:25 PM	#2
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? Probably your processor is the issue. Short of a new processor, not much you can do. Your Caviar black drive, by the way, is not a "very fast drive", but is a nice, but average drive. I have four of them, they are great, but not "fast" so to speak, but I doubt your drive is the issue anyway. Your machine is just outdated, that's all, for HD playback in Vegas at higher quality settings. Vegas playback is dependent on the processor mainly.

September 27th, 2012, 12:43 PM	#3
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? Ok, yes, I agree, it's not as fast as SSD, but so much faster than the drive I have. I guess you're right, my machine is outdated.

September 27th, 2012, 01:00 PM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? There are 10K rpm drives and 15K SAS drives which I also have, then the SSD drives, so there is room between the 7200 rpm drive you have and the fastest SSD drive. At those speeds it just doesn't matter after a certain point. Same holds true with your 7200 rpm drive, for ordinary useage, it should be fine. When I purchased my first two Caviar Black 1TB drives what seems like many years ago, I was very happy with them, they are great drives, well built. If you're drive is full, or even close to half full, it can affect your performance also, so make sure your video is located on a dedicated drive for video storage, not on one that is cluttered with a lot of other stuff. You can also use proxies to improve playback, which Vegas 12 offers. You could get by without a new machine if the proxy feature of Vegas 12 is useable. I just don't know enough about it yet to recommend it.

September 27th, 2012, 02:35 PM	#5
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? Do you think a 15000 rpm drive would do the trick?

September 27th, 2012, 04:29 PM	#6
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? No, I think you need to upgrade, or go with Vegas 12 and try the built in proxy feature. The 15k drives are overkill, and require a special controller. I shouldn't have mentioned all of the drives, that was a distraction from what you probably need to focus on. If you upgrade your PC, you might pick up a Velociraptor 10K just for kicks, but your present Caviar Black drive, as long as it's not your OS drive as well, should be fine.

September 27th, 2012, 07:04 PM	#7
Larry Secrest Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 404	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? Do you think Vegas 12 could be run on the processor I have? I think Vegas won't even run on Windows XP 32 bit. argh, I'm going to have to upgrade but for what, to just be able to actually play the clips in the BEST MODE instead of preview?

September 27th, 2012, 09:24 PM	#8
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? No, you're right, you probably should upgrade your hardware first. I feel your pain. I just upgraded my processor and mobo and ram at great expense, very expensive to do.

September 28th, 2012, 06:56 AM	#9
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Where do you think is the bottleneck? You should be able to upgrade you motherboard, processor and memory to an Intel i7 for about $800 if you do it yourself. A little bit more if you get a PC shop to do it for you. My local PC shop has i7 3770 for $380, Gigabyte motherboard for $160 and 16G of DDR3 RAM for $80. Did a similar upgrade myself last year from a similar machine to yours. You will see a big increase in performance even keeping all the rest of your system the same. Ron