Project Settings For Mixed HDV & AVCHD Footage at DVinfo.net

D.J. Ammons · August 26th, 2012, 11:13 AM

I recently purchased a Canon XA10 camera recording 1920 x 1080 HD at Canon's frame rate of 30pf (wrapped in a 60i wrapper). I will be using it to shoot weddings and event videography with my Sony V1U's recording HDV on tape 1440 x 1080 at 30 fps (which I think Sony also wraps in a 60i wrapper).

I am editing with Sony Vegas Pro 11 and need to know what project settings to use with this mixed footage. In the past when using just my HDV camcorders I would use;

HDV 1080 - 60i (1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps), upper field first (the default - with options of lower field first or "none" for progressive). Pixel aspect ratio defaults to 1.333

Obviously the new Canon XA10 AVCHD footage is different being 1920 x 1080 HD at 30 fps wrapped in a 60i wrapper. The project setting I see as a choice that would seem to apply to this footage is;

HD 1080 - 60i (1920 x 1080) 29.970 fps, upper field first is the default (with choices of lower field first or "none" for progressive), Pixel aspect radio defaults to 1.000 square.

Which of these two project video settings should I use? The footage is split about 50/50 between the HDV and AVCHD cameras.

In both instances I am shooting 30 fps in a 60i wrapper so should I leave the default "upper field first" or use "none" for progessive, or lower field first?

Since the cameras have different pixel aspect ratios (HDV - 1.333 and AVCHD 1.000 square) how do I handle that?

Help!

Dan Herrmann · August 26th, 2012, 04:28 PM

Not sure you want a 30P outout but to answer your question.

I would purchase GoPro Cineform Premium (299) and import the footage at 1920x1080 remove the pull down and edit with the 4:2:2 output.

Simple procedure and you can try it for free for 15 days so once you sign up convert your foorage and edit away in your NLE program.

I am sure you will be pleased with the final product.

If not Cineform there are other codecs that can convert your different footage to one common codec and frame rate.

Just for my curiosity why 30P? It is an uncommon rate even for event videography

Garrett Low · August 27th, 2012, 10:34 AM

The simplest answer is that Vegas can do it all for you. How happy with the results you'll be is the question.

If you set the project properties to 1920x1080 29.97 Progressive, make sure your properties for each clip is set correctly (i.e. for the HDV footage the PAR should be 1.333 and interlaced, it should recognize the 60i), when you go to render it will render the clip as a 30p 1920x1080. Play with the deinterlace methods to see which you like best. The slight upscaling f the HDV footage may make it look a bit soft.

As Dan mentioned Cineform has setting and a better algorithm to deinterlace and upscale so the results will most likely be a bit better. Whether it's worth it or not can only be determined by you. I've been using Cineform for years way before GoPro acquired them. It is a great product and does help to speed up overall render times and if you are doing multigeneration edits or are going to be doing a lot of FX's and color correction it will help your footage hold up better. When I first started using Cineform it was $1K for what you can get for $299 now so it's a pretty good bargain. Give the trial period a go and see if it is something that helps your workflow, but if you want to minimize costs you could do all the necessary conversions in Vegas.

D.J. Ammons · August 27th, 2012, 03:21 PM

Thanks all for the advice. I may have to put Cineform on my to buy list as my budget allows. In the meantime looks like i will use the 1920 x 1080 project settings.

Garrett, what do you mean by "make sure the properties for each clip is set correctly"? I know what the properties are but how do you "set them" for each clip vs setting them for the project?

Garrett Low · August 27th, 2012, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.J. Ammons

Garrett, what do you mean by "make sure the properties for each clip is set correctly"? I know what the properties are but how do you "set them" for each clip vs setting them for the project?

After you've placed the clip on the timeline put the cursor over it, right click and hit properties. You can inspect the properties of each clip and for some of the settings you can manually change them. One will be the PAR. You can't change some of them and those properties will be greyed out.

Jon Shohet · August 28th, 2012, 12:54 AM

The V1 is a progressive scan camera, only recording as interlaced.

I use the PAL version, and have no issues with dropping the V1 footage into a 1920x1080 25p timeline.
I don't know about NTSC. Is there a pulldown removal process to take into consideration? Does Vegas handle that automatically? But there should be no need of de-interlacing.

I own CineForm NeoScene. I can see no discernible quality benefit in pre-transcoding to CineForm over using the native HDV files, unless you intend to do heavy grading.
CineForm is great for rendering intermediates though. It's also less processor intensive than HDV-mpeg2 and H264, so it can help to pre-transcode if your machine is not powerful enough to handle these formats.

August 26th, 2012, 11:13 AM	#1
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	Project Settings For Mixed HDV & AVCHD Footage I recently purchased a Canon XA10 camera recording 1920 x 1080 HD at Canon's frame rate of 30pf (wrapped in a 60i wrapper). I will be using it to shoot weddings and event videography with my Sony V1U's recording HDV on tape 1440 x 1080 at 30 fps (which I think Sony also wraps in a 60i wrapper). I am editing with Sony Vegas Pro 11 and need to know what project settings to use with this mixed footage. In the past when using just my HDV camcorders I would use; HDV 1080 - 60i (1440 x 1080, 29.97 fps), upper field first (the default - with options of lower field first or "none" for progressive). Pixel aspect ratio defaults to 1.333 Obviously the new Canon XA10 AVCHD footage is different being 1920 x 1080 HD at 30 fps wrapped in a 60i wrapper. The project setting I see as a choice that would seem to apply to this footage is; HD 1080 - 60i (1920 x 1080) 29.970 fps, upper field first is the default (with choices of lower field first or "none" for progressive), Pixel aspect radio defaults to 1.000 square. Which of these two project video settings should I use? The footage is split about 50/50 between the HDV and AVCHD cameras. In both instances I am shooting 30 fps in a 60i wrapper so should I leave the default "upper field first" or use "none" for progessive, or lower field first? Since the cameras have different pixel aspect ratios (HDV - 1.333 and AVCHD 1.000 square) how do I handle that? Help!

August 26th, 2012, 04:28 PM	#2
Dan Herrmann Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: villa park CA Posts: 81	Re: Project Settings For Mixed HDV & AVCHD Footage Not sure you want a 30P outout but to answer your question. I would purchase GoPro Cineform Premium (299) and import the footage at 1920x1080 remove the pull down and edit with the 4:2:2 output. Simple procedure and you can try it for free for 15 days so once you sign up convert your foorage and edit away in your NLE program. I am sure you will be pleased with the final product. If not Cineform there are other codecs that can convert your different footage to one common codec and frame rate. Just for my curiosity why 30P? It is an uncommon rate even for event videography

August 27th, 2012, 10:34 AM	#3
Garrett Low Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 1,774	Re: Project Settings For Mixed HDV & AVCHD Footage The simplest answer is that Vegas can do it all for you. How happy with the results you'll be is the question. If you set the project properties to 1920x1080 29.97 Progressive, make sure your properties for each clip is set correctly (i.e. for the HDV footage the PAR should be 1.333 and interlaced, it should recognize the 60i), when you go to render it will render the clip as a 30p 1920x1080. Play with the deinterlace methods to see which you like best. The slight upscaling f the HDV footage may make it look a bit soft. As Dan mentioned Cineform has setting and a better algorithm to deinterlace and upscale so the results will most likely be a bit better. Whether it's worth it or not can only be determined by you. I've been using Cineform for years way before GoPro acquired them. It is a great product and does help to speed up overall render times and if you are doing multigeneration edits or are going to be doing a lot of FX's and color correction it will help your footage hold up better. When I first started using Cineform it was $1K for what you can get for $299 now so it's a pretty good bargain. Give the trial period a go and see if it is something that helps your workflow, but if you want to minimize costs you could do all the necessary conversions in Vegas. __________________ Garrett Low www.GLowMediaProductions.com

August 27th, 2012, 03:21 PM	#4
D.J. Ammons Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 506	Re: Project Settings For Mixed HDV & AVCHD Footage Thanks all for the advice. I may have to put Cineform on my to buy list as my budget allows. In the meantime looks like i will use the 1920 x 1080 project settings. Garrett, what do you mean by "make sure the properties for each clip is set correctly"? I know what the properties are but how do you "set them" for each clip vs setting them for the project?

August 28th, 2012, 12:54 AM	#6
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Re: Project Settings For Mixed HDV & AVCHD Footage The V1 is a progressive scan camera, only recording as interlaced. I use the PAL version, and have no issues with dropping the V1 footage into a 1920x1080 25p timeline. I don't know about NTSC. Is there a pulldown removal process to take into consideration? Does Vegas handle that automatically? But there should be no need of de-interlacing. I own CineForm NeoScene. I can see no discernible quality benefit in pre-transcoding to CineForm over using the native HDV files, unless you intend to do heavy grading. CineForm is great for rendering intermediates though. It's also less processor intensive than HDV-mpeg2 and H264, so it can help to pre-transcode if your machine is not powerful enough to handle these formats.