Disappointing preview performance... at DVinfo.net

Renton Maclachlan · July 31st, 2012, 12:33 AM

I've got a new computer which is not that far off peak performance, but for a variety of reasons have not used it much to do what I got it for...video editing.

However last night I did some using footage from my Gopro. (See GoPro thread on wedding forum) The video preview was terrible. I'm not sure if it was because the GoPro footage is HD and I've never used that before. GPU was on. There was only one bit of FX on a real small clip...although the whole of the track it came from was FX'd. Any time there was a change to another track the video would lag seriously.

Anyone have any clues on how to boost video preview?

John Estcourt · July 31st, 2012, 01:17 AM

You will need to tell us what spec your PC is , because without more information it is impossible to say. I have a new i7 ivybridge Pc and that gives real-time preview with most footage.
Cheers John.

Chris Harding · July 31st, 2012, 01:45 AM

Hi Renton

The GoPro is using MP4 video at around 17mbps so seriously to just view straight footage you will need a decent spec machine like an i7 ...add some transitions and plugins and it will struggle!!!

As John says if it's not at least an i7 2600 with around 8GB ram then it's time to look further. With GPU on (I'm also assuming Vegas 11 here??) Unless your video card can use the info it's not going to help but with a reasonable machine and no GPU acceleration you should get a good preview. Bear in mind that some plugins also drag down the performance....I don't use things like Neat Video cos once a clip is processed for noise it really battles to preview!! Better list also what FX you have added...just try a preview without the FX to see if they are the problem???

Chris

Chris Barcellos · July 31st, 2012, 02:01 AM

On top of all that, avchd is simply not a great editing code. That is why. gopro bought cineform and provides the codec free for trancoding to avi.

Renton Maclachlan · July 31st, 2012, 02:20 AM

Here's what have:

Case: COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1
CPU: Intel Core i7 2700K Sandy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo)
MB: Asus P8Z68 DELUXE/GEN3 Motherboard, Socket 1155, Intel Z68
GPU: EVGA 012-P3-1578-KR GeForce GTX 570 HD 1280MB
PSU: Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold, 1200W ATX
Memory: Kingston 1600 16GB

Chris Harding · July 31st, 2012, 04:13 AM

Hi Renton

I'm underspecced compared to you with a i7 2600 and 8GB ram and my previews are flawless!!

I suspect you have added a plugin on the timeline that is really CPU hungry ...try just unchecking your plugins one at a time and see if you get a huge speed increase. I bet there is one that is dragging the whole system down. Stabilization plugins are also quite a killer...what FX are you using and are they REALLY necessary??

Chris

John Estcourt · July 31st, 2012, 05:41 AM

Chris is correct. I edit lots of Avchd files from various cameras like the gopro and have no issues with playback in real-time, however I am still using. Vegas 10e. With 10e I do not use a dedicated graphics card in fact use the ivybridge on board graphics.
I have not tried vegas 11 due to lots of negative feedback..is it worth trying 10e to see if that is the problem.

Chris Harding · July 31st, 2012, 07:42 AM

Hi John

Me too!! I much prefer 10e!! In fact it's worth turning the GPU on Vegas 11 off..people are reporting better performance and less hassles!! I still think that Renton has got a plugin there that has done some serious processing and that is slowing down the system....process a clip with Neat Video of just 30 seconds long and watch the preview gring to a halt..I also get the same with Mercalli and similar plugins that do a lot of changes to the footage. Stuff like colour correction doesn't cause too many issues.

Chris

Renton Maclachlan · July 31st, 2012, 02:06 PM

I'm not aware I used a plugin...simply rotated one clip 180 degrees...and used the mp4 files without conversion. Perhaps the latter is the problem. I don't know anything about codex's but Chris Barcellos pointed in that direction. What's up with the Cineform conversion stuff?

How much ram should be reserved for preview in 'Options>Preferences>Video>Dynamic RAM'? Any other preferences that should checked?

I used Vegas 11...latest update...64 bit

Chris Barcellos · July 31st, 2012, 02:27 PM

The Cineform codec was developed for the purpose of easing the editing issues originally presented editing of compressed capture formats--- initially, HDV. Essentially, with most compressed format, the player is required to reconstruct each frame of the video sequence. This creates a heavy load on the processor, either CPU, or on the video chip. When you ad filters, flip images, and otherwise color correct, it adds to the work. Cineform and other coversion file codecs attempt to lighten the load by preconverting into frame by frame video. This makes additional processing available for the work needed to also add filters. Cineform also maintains that color correction on its codec is easier on the system resources, and provides a cleaner color correction. In fact, with the Studio program included with Cineform (or its first program known as FirstLight) you can actually add looks to your files that change you files to a look that you are seeking, realtime, and without increasing editing or preview in Vegas during the cutting process.

Now, with all that, i expect an easier editing experience. However. I have an off the shelf Core Duo set up from Dell that is becoming dated and I run 8 gig of memory. Preview can be challenged at still with the Cineform set up. At one point I changed the video card, with some success, as its was my understanding that Vegas 11 is optimized ( with the right video card) for GPU processing.

Renton Maclachlan · July 31st, 2012, 06:18 PM

So...what should I do with footage from the GoPro before editing?

Chris Barcellos · July 31st, 2012, 06:22 PM

Go to the GoPro site. Download the free Cineform Studio programs Convert you footage, and see if you get better results. Take it from there. We all are developing different approaches to editing, and the results we get from it.

Chris Harding · July 31st, 2012, 06:46 PM

Hi Renton

I'm using my GoPro footage direct from the card with no transcoding and it flies in preview!! and you have a slightly faster i7 than me too!!! If you still have the 10e 64 bit installed then run that and see if the same thing happens?? I certainly have no issues at all with AVCHD at 24 mbps or the MP4 GoPro at 17 mbps!!!

Chris

Seth Bloombaum · July 31st, 2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton Maclachlan

I'm not aware I used a plugin...simply rotated one clip 180 degrees...

That's actually a rather significant processor load, that rotation. Every single pixel has to be remapped on the fly, and I don't think that particular function has been accelerated, which would really help.

Easy test - take off the rotation and see how things preview.

I'd check out doing the rotation in the gopro CF app...

Renton Maclachlan · August 1st, 2012, 12:45 AM

Would the fact I had six 2 minute clips on tracks with one of them rotated explain anything?

July 31st, 2012, 12:33 AM	#1
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Disappointing preview performance... I've got a new computer which is not that far off peak performance, but for a variety of reasons have not used it much to do what I got it for...video editing. However last night I did some using footage from my Gopro. (See GoPro thread on wedding forum) The video preview was terrible. I'm not sure if it was because the GoPro footage is HD and I've never used that before. GPU was on. There was only one bit of FX on a real small clip...although the whole of the track it came from was FX'd. Any time there was a change to another track the video would lag seriously. Anyone have any clues on how to boost video preview?

July 31st, 2012, 01:17 AM	#2
John Estcourt Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scotland, Ayr www.amour weddingvideos.co.uk Posts: 305	Re: Disappointing preview performance... You will need to tell us what spec your PC is , because without more information it is impossible to say. I have a new i7 ivybridge Pc and that gives real-time preview with most footage. Cheers John. __________________ john estcourt www.amourweddingvideos.co.uk

July 31st, 2012, 01:45 AM	#3
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Hi Renton The GoPro is using MP4 video at around 17mbps so seriously to just view straight footage you will need a decent spec machine like an i7 ...add some transitions and plugins and it will struggle!!! As John says if it's not at least an i7 2600 with around 8GB ram then it's time to look further. With GPU on (I'm also assuming Vegas 11 here??) Unless your video card can use the info it's not going to help but with a reasonable machine and no GPU acceleration you should get a good preview. Bear in mind that some plugins also drag down the performance....I don't use things like Neat Video cos once a clip is processed for noise it really battles to preview!! Better list also what FX you have added...just try a preview without the FX to see if they are the problem??? Chris

July 31st, 2012, 02:01 AM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Disappointing preview performance... On top of all that, avchd is simply not a great editing code. That is why. gopro bought cineform and provides the codec free for trancoding to avi. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 31st, 2012, 02:20 AM	#5
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Here's what have: Case: COOLER MASTER HAF X RC-942-KKN1 CPU: Intel Core i7 2700K Sandy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) MB: Asus P8Z68 DELUXE/GEN3 Motherboard, Socket 1155, Intel Z68 GPU: EVGA 012-P3-1578-KR GeForce GTX 570 HD 1280MB PSU: Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold, 1200W ATX Memory: Kingston 1600 16GB

July 31st, 2012, 04:13 AM	#6
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Hi Renton I'm underspecced compared to you with a i7 2600 and 8GB ram and my previews are flawless!! I suspect you have added a plugin on the timeline that is really CPU hungry ...try just unchecking your plugins one at a time and see if you get a huge speed increase. I bet there is one that is dragging the whole system down. Stabilization plugins are also quite a killer...what FX are you using and are they REALLY necessary?? Chris

July 31st, 2012, 05:41 AM	#7
John Estcourt Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scotland, Ayr www.amour weddingvideos.co.uk Posts: 305	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Chris is correct. I edit lots of Avchd files from various cameras like the gopro and have no issues with playback in real-time, however I am still using. Vegas 10e. With 10e I do not use a dedicated graphics card in fact use the ivybridge on board graphics. I have not tried vegas 11 due to lots of negative feedback..is it worth trying 10e to see if that is the problem. __________________ john estcourt www.amourweddingvideos.co.uk

July 31st, 2012, 07:42 AM	#8
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Hi John Me too!! I much prefer 10e!! In fact it's worth turning the GPU on Vegas 11 off..people are reporting better performance and less hassles!! I still think that Renton has got a plugin there that has done some serious processing and that is slowing down the system....process a clip with Neat Video of just 30 seconds long and watch the preview gring to a halt..I also get the same with Mercalli and similar plugins that do a lot of changes to the footage. Stuff like colour correction doesn't cause too many issues. Chris

July 31st, 2012, 02:06 PM	#9
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Disappointing preview performance... I'm not aware I used a plugin...simply rotated one clip 180 degrees...and used the mp4 files without conversion. Perhaps the latter is the problem. I don't know anything about codex's but Chris Barcellos pointed in that direction. What's up with the Cineform conversion stuff? How much ram should be reserved for preview in 'Options>Preferences>Video>Dynamic RAM'? Any other preferences that should checked? I used Vegas 11...latest update...64 bit

July 31st, 2012, 02:27 PM	#10
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Disappointing preview performance... The Cineform codec was developed for the purpose of easing the editing issues originally presented editing of compressed capture formats--- initially, HDV. Essentially, with most compressed format, the player is required to reconstruct each frame of the video sequence. This creates a heavy load on the processor, either CPU, or on the video chip. When you ad filters, flip images, and otherwise color correct, it adds to the work. Cineform and other coversion file codecs attempt to lighten the load by preconverting into frame by frame video. This makes additional processing available for the work needed to also add filters. Cineform also maintains that color correction on its codec is easier on the system resources, and provides a cleaner color correction. In fact, with the Studio program included with Cineform (or its first program known as FirstLight) you can actually add looks to your files that change you files to a look that you are seeking, realtime, and without increasing editing or preview in Vegas during the cutting process. Now, with all that, i expect an easier editing experience. However. I have an off the shelf Core Duo set up from Dell that is becoming dated and I run 8 gig of memory. Preview can be challenged at still with the Cineform set up. At one point I changed the video card, with some success, as its was my understanding that Vegas 11 is optimized ( with the right video card) for GPU processing. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 31st, 2012, 06:18 PM	#11
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Disappointing preview performance... So...what should I do with footage from the GoPro before editing?

July 31st, 2012, 06:22 PM	#12
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Go to the GoPro site. Download the free Cineform Studio programs Convert you footage, and see if you get better results. Take it from there. We all are developing different approaches to editing, and the results we get from it. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

July 31st, 2012, 06:46 PM	#13
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Hi Renton I'm using my GoPro footage direct from the card with no transcoding and it flies in preview!! and you have a slightly faster i7 than me too!!! If you still have the 10e 64 bit installed then run that and see if the same thing happens?? I certainly have no issues at all with AVCHD at 24 mbps or the MP4 GoPro at 17 mbps!!! Chris

August 1st, 2012, 12:45 AM	#15
Renton Maclachlan Trustee Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,180	Re: Disappointing preview performance... Would the fact I had six 2 minute clips on tracks with one of them rotated explain anything?