1st and last time I'm editing ProRes in Vegas for a major project

[Jack Zhang]

I honestly did not expect so many blank frames to appear in the render for my project that it makes it unacceptable for any post house's standards, let alone my own personal standards.

I'll TRY to patch it up, but I honestly now feel much less inclined on ProRes on Windows (specifically Vegas) and that is the exact reason why I did not buy the Atmos Samurai or Ninja.

[Leslie Wand]

didn't even know you could get prores into vegas!

i generally transcode any 'foreign' codec (ie. none vegas 'standard' format) to .mxf.

[Mike Kujbida]

Which version of Vegas are you using?
I periodically get ProRes files from a local post house and have never had any problems dropping them on a Vegas Pro 10.0e timeline and rendering the finished project.

[Jack Zhang]

10.0c. I get occasional black frames enough that it gets annoying. Initially, I didn't think it would end up in the render, but it DOES.

This is the consequence of shooting in AVC-Intra and all you have is Sony Vegas... you're forced to transcode on a Mac then transfer over to PC to edit. Never again...

[Mike Kujbida]

Jack, you have my sympathies.
I've been fortunate to never have experienced the black frame problem that has plagued other Vegas users.

[Al Bergstein]

Jack, have you tried Raylight? They claim to generate proxies for avc-intra.

[David Johns]

I second the Raylight idea, I've only played with it in Vegas but it read and edited P2 files natively on the Vegas timeline. Claims to do AVC-intra etc

Raylight Ultra by DVFilm - Edit HVX200 P2 MXF DVCPROHD with Vegas

Cheers
Dave

[Geoffrey Chandler]

Given the problems that crop up from using ProRes in Windows/Vegas, would Avid DNxHD be a better choice for recording format? I have a new Atomos Ronin and that is one of the options.

[Jeff Pulera]

I use Atomos Ninja ProRes files all the time for long multi-camera edits in Premiere Pro and have never had a single issue of any sort with the ProRes footage. I know this doesn't help your situation, but just wanted to point out for our readers that it's not a Windows or Atomos or ProRes issue in particular, seems to be either Vegas or something with your PC specifically that would cause this.

Thanks

[Ian Stark]

I second the 'not the fault of Atomos' comment! I have used a Samurai Blade for a long time now and on almost every shoot, capturing to DNxHD. The only problem I have encountered was, oddly enough, yesterday, when the SSD became corrupted and would not be recognised in either the Blade or the pc. A scary moment, thankfully resolved by chkdsk with the loss of only three clips. Phew.

Back to the problem of this thread - how many clips are on the timeline, Jack? I have read that some people have had trouble with a large number of clips. I personally have not witnessed this (the current project has 286 clips). I believe that's a mov issue and I think the symptom was that whole clips were showing blank rather than just frames - worth considering though.

[Noa Put]

Back to the problem of this thread - how many clips are on the timeline, Jack?

Not sure if you have seen it but this thread is from 2012, I"m sure Jack has moved on to either the latest Vegas version or another NLE by now.

[Ian Stark]

Ha! No, I hadn't spotted that!! It just appeared in my daily digest this morning. Thanks Noa :-)

[Christopher Young]

Originally Posted by David Johns

I second the Raylight idea, I've only played with it in Vegas but it read and edited P2 files natively on the Vegas timeline. Claims to do AVC-intra etc

Raylight Ultra by DVFilm - Edit HVX200 P2 MXF DVCPROHD with Vegas

This is correct in earlier versions of Vegas but in 12 & 13 you can edit P2 straight on the timeline. By far my favourite way though of working with heavy demand codecs is to do a batch convert in FootageStudio 4K to Cineform AVI which has the lowest CPU / GPU demand and makes even 4K editing a pleasure.

To enable the Cineform codec in Vegas download the latest version of GoPro Studio, free, which will install the latest Cineform codec suite with decoder and encoder. When Rendering to Cineform you will find it under the AVI selection under the 1080 YUV selections. Go in and select the Cineform codec and select the level you require. Lv #1 is about 410Mbps. Lv #2 is about 510Mbps and Lv #3 is about 650Mbps when working in 4K. There is no Cineform 4K template but under Custom you can set your own 3840 or 4096 and FPS settings, or a 1080 template if you so wish but then make sure you SAVEIT!

You can go higher with the Filmscan modes but I find it totally unnecessary. Even Cineform say they hardly ever used Filmscan for normal video. Lv #2 works beautifully and uses less CPU and GPU than ProRes 422 by about 50%.

If you don't want to buy or use FootageStudio 4K hunt the web for a Vegas script called "Regions to Events" and drop it into the Scripts folder in the Vegas install directory. Throw all your hard to work with camera clips onto a Vegas timeline and run the Regions to Events script and now each clip is marked as a region. Now back to the Scripts menu and run the "Batch Render" script which is a stock Vegas one. Now #1 is important, otherwise the transcodes will default to your system drive... nasty!

1. Select a folder for your batch converts.
2. Select the check button that says "Render Regions"
3. Select from the Template Menu the Cineform template you created.

Now hit OK and Vegas will create a whole bunch of nice and easy to work with 10-bit Cineform Intermediate files. Files that Vegas has little dramas with unlike ProRes.

To give you an idea on a 1st Gen i7 950 CPU @ 3.07GHz with an Nvidea GTX-680 GPU and a four HDD Raid '0' I can play back 4K 24p at full frame rate with the settings of Best (Auto). I have found no other codec to come close to that on that old machine. On that particular system FS7 UHD XAVC-I frame plays back at around 5-7fps. Useless! The same footage transcoded to Lv #2 Cineform play back at full frame rate and is a pleasure to work with.

On a current Intel 8 or 12 core CPU Cineform performs beautifully. Sure the files are around three times the size but the magic on the timeline with Cineform's VC-5 Wavelet codec leaves any other codec for dead from a performance point of view. Apart from performance I think Cineform is every bit as good as ProRes and way better if on Windows.

If you want a really nice HD and QFHD / 4K 8-bit codec for Vegas editing download Grass Valley's HQ and HQX codec pack, it's free, and install that. Follow the same process for batch conversion as outlined for Cineform. These are the great codecs that Edius is running and GV have released them for general consumption and again in Vegas they work beautifully and efficiently.

Happy cutting.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

[Geoffrey Chandler]

Originally Posted by Ian Stark

I second the 'not the fault of Atomos' comment! I have used a Samurai Blade for a long time now and on almost every shoot, capturing to DNxHD. .

So you are saying Avid DNxHD would be a better choice (over ProRes)? I'm not doing color grading or anything. Just simple stage event video.

[Seth Bloombaum]

Originally Posted by Christopher Young

This is correct in earlier versions of Vegas but in 12 & 13 you can edit P2 straight on the timeline. By far my favourite way though of working with heavy demand codecs is to do a batch convert in FootageStudio 4K to Cineform AVI which has the lowest CPU / GPU demand and makes even 4K editing a pleasure.

To enable the Cineform codec in Vegas...

Chris, thanks for that rundown of how to use current Cineform in Vegas.

I'm among those users who bought Cineform tools (and paid a dear price) prior to GoPro's acquisition of them... and then was quite discouraged by poorly supported confusing workflows during that transition. It's not unusual for a new owner to want resources to go to their primary needs, but it was such a shame with CF as it was *so* great!

It's good to know how to use it as an editing intermediate and mastering codec again. For me, it was great when it was working - thanks!