Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11!

Peter Siamidis · May 19th, 2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis

Peter, I will try again with the same settings you posted. I don't have any 1080p60 material. Why don't we test with the same video clip? I'll post some Sony XDCAM footage. Since we both have the nVidia 560ti, we have a useful comparison.

Sure that's cool. Just fyi I have the original 560ti, not the re-released model that has more cuda cores. So mine has 384 cuda cores, compared to newer models that have 448.

Gints Klimanis · May 22nd, 2012, 06:14 PM

nVidia gives us some hints, but I'm not sure Sony uses nVidia's supplied CUDA encoders. When I use the MainConcept encoder, it's about twice as fast as Sony. It is also possible that I am MPEG2 decode-bound by Sony's MPEG2 decoder on XDAM footage rather than H.264 encode-bound.

http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/...aper-FINAL.pdf
"GeForce GTX 680 also features a new hardware-based H.264 video encoder, NVENC. NVENC is almost four times faster than our previous CUDA-based encoder while consuming much less power."

Will a driver update will improve CUDA H.264 encoding for older GPUs?

From the MainConcept site : CUDA H.264/AVC: MainConcept
"Using the MainConcept CUDA H.264/AVC Encoder, the whole H.264/AVC transcoding process is done on the GPUs, except for entropy encoding which is done on the CPU."

Peter Siamidis · May 22nd, 2012, 09:08 PM

To use that NVENC hardware encoder on the 6xx series Sony will have to patch Vegas Pro, I don't think just a driver update would do it. Thing is I'm always wary about speed claims. I've used so many gpu encoders and by and large they have all been crap, they sacrifice encode quality for speed. Vegas Pro is the first app I've used whose gpu encoder actually produces the same quality encodes as their cpu encoder and at a faster rate, which is awesome. So I'll wait for reviews on the NVENC encoder first. I'd be thrilled if it turns out to be a quality encoder though, and if Vegas Pro eventually supports it :)

Gints Klimanis · May 22nd, 2012, 10:03 PM

Agreed. The customer cited for GPU accelerated encode is Cyberlink. I use DVDFab and notice that the two-pass H.264 encoder stalls after a short while and never finishes the job. The one-pass is pretty good.

I also have the "older" 560ti with 384 cores and 1 GB GFX:
EVGA 01G-P3-1561-AR GeForce GTX 560 Ti FPB (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...01G-P3-1561-AR

Coprocessor card manufacturers have a new market in which to expand. Why is a GPU considered to be "hardware" acceleration? Today, there is little to distinguish a multi-core CPU from a GPU other than the instruction set. Both are fully programmable.

Sony shows XDCAM (MPEG-2) acceleration with GPUs :
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...puacceleration

Kim Olsson · May 24th, 2012, 01:43 AM

Ok. Now im gettig stressed about all the theory...

My order is complete, and my new conputer will arrive next week...
This is what I ordered:

Ivy Bridge 3770k (OC to 4.5GHz)
Asus p8z77 v motherboard
32Gb Corsair Vengance 1600MHz
Gigabyte GTX 670 2GB RAM
Intel SSD 120GB 520 serie
Samsung 2TB HD
Corsair Hydro H100 CPU cooling

I have changed my setup because of some inputs from this thread...
Due to the more expensive graphiccard, I had to choose a cheaper CPU. Thats ok, because the 3930k will only affect rendertime, not the workflow. And I have no deadlines or something like that. But if Iam lucky, the GTX 670 will boost the workflow, to be faster. Ofcourse hopefully the rendertime too...
This setup can be called for "experimental", because even that GTX 670 have 1344 cuda cores and GTX 580 only 512, the card may not be compatible with Vegad Pro 11...

I will download some specific project test file to compare workflow and rendertime when I can
Of course I will share my information about this.

See u later.

Gints Klimanis · May 24th, 2012, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

If you're going all this way Kim why not get the GTX 680 card? It has triple the cuda cores, which will mean increased performance and should help with preview playback. It's all about the number of cuda cores with Vegas.

Kepler CUDA cores operate at half the clock frequency of Fermi cores. Unless you're doing particle simulation which stores equations (polynomial coefficients) in the register files on the GFX card, most applications will be limited by memory bandwidth. nVidia is touting operations / watt rather than total operaations for the 6x0 round .

Kim Olsson · May 24th, 2012, 03:49 AM

Personally I believe a GTX 570 would be better off, then a GTX 670 or 680.
But what a heck... i want to see it with my own eyes. Im tired walking around "thinking" the GTX570 is better..

;D

Im going to see some proof soon.

Anyway, now I have a reason to play Battlefield 3 ;)

Peter Siamidis · May 29th, 2012, 03:57 PM

I just bought a 670 today, so I'll post some encode timing comparisons later today.

EDIT: Well scratch that...with the 670 installed Vegas 11 just gives an unknown error when trying to encode, and fails. So stick to the 5xx series of cards :)

Jeff Harper · May 29th, 2012, 10:36 PM

Bummer Peter, so sorry to hear that.

Kim Olsson · May 29th, 2012, 11:26 PM

The graphiccard should be compatible with VP11. It has the requirements listed on sonymediasoftwares website... It can be a conflict with your old drivers... Or else it is only a question of time until the gpuchip will work inside VP11.
I havent got my computer shipped yet. But I will have a clean install, only vegas installed with the newest drivers..
Well great you updated us Peter.

Jeff Harper · May 29th, 2012, 11:33 PM

Kim, very good point. Peter, did you do a complete uninstall of your old video drivers? I have neglected to do that and found that when I uninstalled the old drivers completely, things straightend right up.

Gints Klimanis · May 30th, 2012, 01:19 AM

I'm sure Peter is sharp enough to install the drivers that were supplied with his brand new GFX card. I've seen similar warnings/stalls from Vegas during my GFX card overclocking experiments. Frankly, the information provided by these pop-up dialog boxes is completely inadequate. Such messages are no better than "Error -1009"

Jeff Harper · May 30th, 2012, 01:31 AM

Gints, we are not talking about whether he installed the right drivers, but instead whether he uninstalled his old ones first. This is easy to overlook, and I've done it myself. EVGA, for example recommends using a driver removal tool before installing new drivers.

Gints Klimanis · May 30th, 2012, 11:58 AM

Jeff, which driver removal tool do you recommend? thanks.

Jeff Harper · May 30th, 2012, 12:18 PM

Gints, I used DriverSweeper, it was free and was mentioned on the EVGA website, so I trusted it. There are those that say they are unnecessary and the idea of using such software is is apparently "controversial" in some quarters, but don't let any web talk distract you. It worked fine, you just have to be very careful not to uninstall anything you shouldn't.

Google "how to uninstall video drivers" or go to your manufacturer site to get the general idea of what the best practices if you want.

May 22nd, 2012, 06:14 PM	#32
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! nVidia gives us some hints, but I'm not sure Sony uses nVidia's supplied CUDA encoders. When I use the MainConcept encoder, it's about twice as fast as Sony. It is also possible that I am MPEG2 decode-bound by Sony's MPEG2 decoder on XDAM footage rather than H.264 encode-bound. http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/...aper-FINAL.pdf "GeForce GTX 680 also features a new hardware-based H.264 video encoder, NVENC. NVENC is almost four times faster than our previous CUDA-based encoder while consuming much less power." Will a driver update will improve CUDA H.264 encoding for older GPUs? From the MainConcept site : CUDA H.264/AVC: MainConcept "Using the MainConcept CUDA H.264/AVC Encoder, the whole H.264/AVC transcoding process is done on the GPUs, except for entropy encoding which is done on the CPU."

May 22nd, 2012, 09:08 PM	#33
Peter Siamidis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA Posts: 148	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! To use that NVENC hardware encoder on the 6xx series Sony will have to patch Vegas Pro, I don't think just a driver update would do it. Thing is I'm always wary about speed claims. I've used so many gpu encoders and by and large they have all been crap, they sacrifice encode quality for speed. Vegas Pro is the first app I've used whose gpu encoder actually produces the same quality encodes as their cpu encoder and at a faster rate, which is awesome. So I'll wait for reviews on the NVENC encoder first. I'd be thrilled if it turns out to be a quality encoder though, and if Vegas Pro eventually supports it :)

May 22nd, 2012, 10:03 PM	#34
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Agreed. The customer cited for GPU accelerated encode is Cyberlink. I use DVDFab and notice that the two-pass H.264 encoder stalls after a short while and never finishes the job. The one-pass is pretty good. I also have the "older" 560ti with 384 cores and 1 GB GFX: EVGA 01G-P3-1561-AR GeForce GTX 560 Ti FPB (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...01G-P3-1561-AR Coprocessor card manufacturers have a new market in which to expand. Why is a GPU considered to be "hardware" acceleration? Today, there is little to distinguish a multi-core CPU from a GPU other than the instruction set. Both are fully programmable. Sony shows XDCAM (MPEG-2) acceleration with GPUs : http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...puacceleration Last edited by Gints Klimanis; May 23rd, 2012 at 02:49 PM.

May 24th, 2012, 01:43 AM	#35
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Ok. Now im gettig stressed about all the theory... My order is complete, and my new conputer will arrive next week... This is what I ordered: Ivy Bridge 3770k (OC to 4.5GHz) Asus p8z77 v motherboard 32Gb Corsair Vengance 1600MHz Gigabyte GTX 670 2GB RAM Intel SSD 120GB 520 serie Samsung 2TB HD Corsair Hydro H100 CPU cooling I have changed my setup because of some inputs from this thread... Due to the more expensive graphiccard, I had to choose a cheaper CPU. Thats ok, because the 3930k will only affect rendertime, not the workflow. And I have no deadlines or something like that. But if Iam lucky, the GTX 670 will boost the workflow, to be faster. Ofcourse hopefully the rendertime too... This setup can be called for "experimental", because even that GTX 670 have 1344 cuda cores and GTX 580 only 512, the card may not be compatible with Vegad Pro 11... I will download some specific project test file to compare workflow and rendertime when I can Of course I will share my information about this. See u later.

May 24th, 2012, 03:49 AM	#37
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Personally I believe a GTX 570 would be better off, then a GTX 670 or 680. But what a heck... i want to see it with my own eyes. Im tired walking around "thinking" the GTX570 is better.. ;D Im going to see some proof soon. Anyway, now I have a reason to play Battlefield 3 ;) Last edited by Kim Olsson; May 24th, 2012 at 04:36 AM.

May 29th, 2012, 03:57 PM	#38
Peter Siamidis Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA Posts: 148	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! I just bought a 670 today, so I'll post some encode timing comparisons later today. EDIT: Well scratch that...with the 670 installed Vegas 11 just gives an unknown error when trying to encode, and fails. So stick to the 5xx series of cards :) Last edited by Peter Siamidis; May 29th, 2012 at 04:46 PM.

May 29th, 2012, 10:36 PM	#39
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Bummer Peter, so sorry to hear that.

May 29th, 2012, 11:26 PM	#40
Kim Olsson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 263	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! The graphiccard should be compatible with VP11. It has the requirements listed on sonymediasoftwares website... It can be a conflict with your old drivers... Or else it is only a question of time until the gpuchip will work inside VP11. I havent got my computer shipped yet. But I will have a clean install, only vegas installed with the newest drivers.. Well great you updated us Peter.

May 29th, 2012, 11:33 PM	#41
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Kim, very good point. Peter, did you do a complete uninstall of your old video drivers? I have neglected to do that and found that when I uninstalled the old drivers completely, things straightend right up.

May 30th, 2012, 01:19 AM	#42
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! I'm sure Peter is sharp enough to install the drivers that were supplied with his brand new GFX card. I've seen similar warnings/stalls from Vegas during my GFX card overclocking experiments. Frankly, the information provided by these pop-up dialog boxes is completely inadequate. Such messages are no better than "Error -1009"

May 30th, 2012, 01:31 AM	#43
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Gints, we are not talking about whether he installed the right drivers, but instead whether he uninstalled his old ones first. This is easy to overlook, and I've done it myself. EVGA, for example recommends using a driver removal tool before installing new drivers.

May 30th, 2012, 11:58 AM	#44
Gints Klimanis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,222	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Jeff, which driver removal tool do you recommend? thanks.

May 30th, 2012, 12:18 PM	#45
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Building a new SuperComputer for Vegas Pro 11! Gints, I used DriverSweeper, it was free and was mentioned on the EVGA website, so I trusted it. There are those that say they are unnecessary and the idea of using such software is is apparently "controversial" in some quarters, but don't let any web talk distract you. It worked fine, you just have to be very careful not to uninstall anything you shouldn't. Google "how to uninstall video drivers" or go to your manufacturer site to get the general idea of what the best practices if you want.