Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better? at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > What Happens in Vegas...
Register FAQ Today's Posts Buyer's Guides

What Happens in Vegas...
...stays in Vegas! This PC-based editing app is a safe bet with these tips.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 17th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 47
Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better?

Hi Folks,

I am editing a project on my clients machine with Panasonic HMC150 and AF100 source files.

My client had just downloaded the trial of Sony Vegas 11 and we are giving it a go.

For a long time, I have converted the source files to Cineform High Quality, and there was always a marked improvement in both editing performance, and even more notably the colors always looked much better on the Cineform file.

***

I converted the footage to Cineform, and replaced it, but I didn't see the change in quality - which is normally so dramatic.

So to test, I stacked the source AVCHD files and the Cineform file on separate tracks and toggled between the two. With some serious pixel peeping, I did see a difference between the footage, but I would hesitate to say the Cineform footage looked "better", just "different", but almost unnoticeable.

My question is, has anyone had the same experience? Is there an change or improvement to the way Vegas 11 displays AVCHD? Or Cineform? Could there be another reason why?

I even opened an older project where the difference between Cineform and source files was dramatic - the skin tones looked much better with Cineform when I first worked on it. But again, the two files looked virtually the same!

Please share with me your experience.
Kenneth Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 02:59 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,425
Re: Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better?

Since 10, they've always looked identical to me, but I didn't use high quality settings.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 03:56 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 47
Re: Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better?

I did the same stacked footage test in Premiere 5.5, and there was a pretty significant difference. It appeared that there was more range in the Cineform footage, blacks got crushed in the AVCHD, but I saw detail in the Cineform files.

However, the Cineform footage appeared somewhat washed out, while the source AVCHD footage "popped" more and was more saturated. In my experience, clients tend to like deeper colors more often, and in this case so did I.
Kenneth Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 05:13 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Grosse pointe, michigan
Posts: 189
Re: Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better?

Cineform footage in vegas shows up as 709 or (16-235).
Roy Feldman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 05:52 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York City
Posts: 47
Re: Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better?

^^ I have almost no knowledge of these color spaces. Would you elaborate or point me in the direction to some further information please?
Kenneth Fisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2011, 07:35 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor, ON Canada
Posts: 2,770
Re: Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth Fisher View Post
^^ I have almost no knowledge of these color spaces. Would you elaborate or point me in the direction to some further information please?
Everything you ever wanted to know - and a lot of stuff you had no idea about at Sony Vegas Tutorials and Other Articles, courtesy of Glenn Chan.
Mike Kujbida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2011, 05:20 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Posts: 302
Re: Vegas 11 Handling AVCHD Color Better?

Hi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth Fisher View Post
Hi Folks,

I am editing a project on my clients machine with Panasonic HMC150 and AF100 source files.

My client had just downloaded the trial of Sony Vegas 11 and we are giving it a go.

For a long time, I have converted the source files to Cineform High Quality, and there was always a marked improvement in both editing performance, and even more notably the colors always looked much better on the Cineform file.

***

I converted the footage to Cineform, and replaced it, but I didn't see the change in quality - which is normally so dramatic.

So to test, I stacked the source AVCHD files and the Cineform file on separate tracks and toggled between the two. With some serious pixel peeping, I did see a difference between the footage, but I would hesitate to say the Cineform footage looked "better", just "different", but almost unnoticeable.

My question is, has anyone had the same experience? Is there an change or improvement to the way Vegas 11 displays AVCHD? Or Cineform? Could there be another reason why?

I even opened an older project where the difference between Cineform and source files was dramatic - the skin tones looked much better with Cineform when I first worked on it. But again, the two files looked virtually the same!

Please share with me your experience.
Apart from level shifts which would result in more contrasty/less contrasty comparisons, with one being correct the other not, and would need a level shift to compare like for like then:

When you convert to Cineform the original AVCHD footage has to be decompressed into an uncompressed frame(s), then handed to Cineform to recompress, which is lossy and on the Sony timeline in your preview, Sony has to uncompress it again. This means you AVCHD footage has gone through a lossy compression cycle to get it to Cineform, while Cineform is good, lossy is lossy, so something will be different/changed.

With your original AVCHD footage on the timeline, Sony just uncompresses that for your preview, and it hasn't been through an additional lossy compression conversion. AVCHD straight on the time-line is going to yield the best quality, if not the best editing experience because it takes more work for the PC.

The Sony preview window really is just sampling the video and resizing it, and different decoders will be used to sample a preview for AVCHD and Cineform. So all the above will cause there to be a difference when you pixel peek. You are probably better off exporting a still frame of each and comparing those for the most scrutiny, on a Windows PC if you maximise both still images in Paint, you can Alt-Tab between them really quickly and see differences.

Regards

Phil
Phil Lee is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Windows / PC Post Production Solutions > What Happens in Vegas...


 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:50 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network