Vegas 11 + Cineform Neo= Crash at DVinfo.net

Ron German · November 2nd, 2011, 07:41 PM

Besides the pixel aspect ratio problem (not corrected in build 425), I can`t render in Vegas 11 64bits (bl 425) a 90`project mixing mainly Sony MXF 1080 23,97p and Cineform Neo 1440 23,97p - the system crashes when the render starts (exporting to a QT codec) and in the midle of the render (to Sony MXF 35 or 50).
The same operation works (now that I upgraded my system) with Vegas 9e 64bits.

Why???

Sony Vegas hasn`t been reliable for me sinse Version 8, a real nightmare, and its support is a joke.
As my patience with Sony Vegas is in the end, maybe its time to change.

Windows 7 Ultimate 64bits, AMD Phenom II X6 1090T (6 cores) 3,2 GHZ, 12 MB RAM DDR 3, NVIDIA Geforce GTX550 TI

Jeff Harper · November 2nd, 2011, 10:15 PM

Ron, maybe of no help, but I convert everything with HDlink so all my footage matches, same size, etc. I dislike mismatched footage on my timeline. I rarely have crashes, ever, but then I'm rendering for Bluray and DVD, and sometimes for the web. You are mixing aspect ratios on the timeline, which I personally would not do. I know some folks do it all the time, but I don't. I am also very anal about some things, and this is one of them.

If you've got some footage converted with Cineform, can't you just convert it all to the same aspect ratio? This way Vegas won't have to resize it, and that should give you a better final product anyway. My understanding is that Vegas doesn't resize very well anyway.

Vegas has never been particularly QT friendly, and it seems to me this is well known, but I don't know much about it, not having a need to use QT.

On occasion when editing 4 camera shoots Vegas has frozen, but it usually happens after hours of editing. As long as I save often, and shut down and restart Vegas every few hours, it's all been good for me.

From time to time, I read about folks having trouble mixing footage on the Vegas timeline. While it certainly would be nice for Vegas to handle it all seamlessly, it makes sense also that converting it all to match beforehand would be a simple, albeit time consuming way to guarantee a smoother editing experience. My projects are all 4-5 camera AVCHD projects, and I'm currently editing a project without having converted the footage before hand. I just finished the multicam portion, and it was a very smooth edit.

The aspect ratio deal with 16:9 Cineform files, seems to be a Cineform issue, not a Vegas issue. I convert my 720 60p footage to Cineform and keep it the same size, and then crop in post for SD using the aspect ratio script, and my DVDs look to be on par with Bluray, and I'm not exaggerating.

So while I feel your pain, you could avoid your troubles, I think by doing a little more prep work before hand using Cineform. You might need the next step up in a Cineform product to accomplish your conversion, don't know, but I could not live without the options available with HD Link.

Ron German · November 3rd, 2011, 06:17 AM

Thank you Jeff
First of all, if a company offers a product to their customers saying it`s going to do these jobs, they should be done. I paid for it. That sums it up.
If there is a option to render to some QT codecs, it should render without issues.
I have more than 450 Neo clips in my timeline, so convert all of them doesn`t make sense for me.
Why Vegas 9.e rendered my project to MJPEGA (QT) and Vegas 11 can not even render the first images?
Unfortunately the reality for me and many others is that Vegas Pro hasn`t been a reliable software sinse the HD editing introduction, mainly with Cineform files.
Thank you again for your attention, Jeff.

Jeff Harper · November 3rd, 2011, 06:50 AM

Didn't realize this workflow worked for you in Vegas 9, that would be a pain and pretty upsetting for sure.

How it should operate and how it does are often two different things, and that's why I transcode everything. It just works. I'm not saying it is right, but probably like you I'm on a deadline and I just do what I have to do to get 'er done.

I have thirty projects or more and they all will be transcoded, and they each come to about 700GB when transcoded to Cineform. It is a huge storage issue. But man it edits and renders out so pretty, it's worth it. I rendered out the project I was working on last night without converting to Cineform first to see how it looks, and it sucks. I just finished converting to Cineform, and now I know it will be stunning on DVD.

If you have to change, Mark Von Lanken uses Edius, as you probably know, and it does mixed footage real well.

Ron German · November 3rd, 2011, 10:25 AM

Thank you Jeff, I`m trying Premiere Pro 5.5 and it seems to be rock solid. Not user friendly like Vegas, but everything works.
Regards

Jeff Harper · November 4th, 2011, 05:55 AM

"Not user friendly" is putting it mildly. I have it and won't install it, probably ever again. Every little thing I seem to be able to do with Vegas is like pulling teeth in Premier, and many things I take for granted in Vegas I cannot do at all in Premier.

November 2nd, 2011, 07:41 PM	#1
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	Vegas 11 + Cineform Neo= Crash Besides the pixel aspect ratio problem (not corrected in build 425), I can`t render in Vegas 11 64bits (bl 425) a 90`project mixing mainly Sony MXF 1080 23,97p and Cineform Neo 1440 23,97p - the system crashes when the render starts (exporting to a QT codec) and in the midle of the render (to Sony MXF 35 or 50). The same operation works (now that I upgraded my system) with Vegas 9e 64bits. Why??? Sony Vegas hasn`t been reliable for me sinse Version 8, a real nightmare, and its support is a joke. As my patience with Sony Vegas is in the end, maybe its time to change. Windows 7 Ultimate 64bits, AMD Phenom II X6 1090T (6 cores) 3,2 GHZ, 12 MB RAM DDR 3, NVIDIA Geforce GTX550 TI

November 2nd, 2011, 10:15 PM	#2
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Vegas 11 + Cineform Neo= Crash Ron, maybe of no help, but I convert everything with HDlink so all my footage matches, same size, etc. I dislike mismatched footage on my timeline. I rarely have crashes, ever, but then I'm rendering for Bluray and DVD, and sometimes for the web. You are mixing aspect ratios on the timeline, which I personally would not do. I know some folks do it all the time, but I don't. I am also very anal about some things, and this is one of them. If you've got some footage converted with Cineform, can't you just convert it all to the same aspect ratio? This way Vegas won't have to resize it, and that should give you a better final product anyway. My understanding is that Vegas doesn't resize very well anyway. Vegas has never been particularly QT friendly, and it seems to me this is well known, but I don't know much about it, not having a need to use QT. On occasion when editing 4 camera shoots Vegas has frozen, but it usually happens after hours of editing. As long as I save often, and shut down and restart Vegas every few hours, it's all been good for me. From time to time, I read about folks having trouble mixing footage on the Vegas timeline. While it certainly would be nice for Vegas to handle it all seamlessly, it makes sense also that converting it all to match beforehand would be a simple, albeit time consuming way to guarantee a smoother editing experience. My projects are all 4-5 camera AVCHD projects, and I'm currently editing a project without having converted the footage before hand. I just finished the multicam portion, and it was a very smooth edit. The aspect ratio deal with 16:9 Cineform files, seems to be a Cineform issue, not a Vegas issue. I convert my 720 60p footage to Cineform and keep it the same size, and then crop in post for SD using the aspect ratio script, and my DVDs look to be on par with Bluray, and I'm not exaggerating. So while I feel your pain, you could avoid your troubles, I think by doing a little more prep work before hand using Cineform. You might need the next step up in a Cineform product to accomplish your conversion, don't know, but I could not live without the options available with HD Link. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

November 3rd, 2011, 06:17 AM	#3
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	Re: Vegas 11 + Cineform Neo= Crash Thank you Jeff First of all, if a company offers a product to their customers saying it`s going to do these jobs, they should be done. I paid for it. That sums it up. If there is a option to render to some QT codecs, it should render without issues. I have more than 450 Neo clips in my timeline, so convert all of them doesn`t make sense for me. Why Vegas 9.e rendered my project to MJPEGA (QT) and Vegas 11 can not even render the first images? Unfortunately the reality for me and many others is that Vegas Pro hasn`t been a reliable software sinse the HD editing introduction, mainly with Cineform files. Thank you again for your attention, Jeff.

November 3rd, 2011, 06:50 AM	#4
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Vegas 11 + Cineform Neo= Crash Didn't realize this workflow worked for you in Vegas 9, that would be a pain and pretty upsetting for sure. How it should operate and how it does are often two different things, and that's why I transcode everything. It just works. I'm not saying it is right, but probably like you I'm on a deadline and I just do what I have to do to get 'er done. I have thirty projects or more and they all will be transcoded, and they each come to about 700GB when transcoded to Cineform. It is a huge storage issue. But man it edits and renders out so pretty, it's worth it. I rendered out the project I was working on last night without converting to Cineform first to see how it looks, and it sucks. I just finished converting to Cineform, and now I know it will be stunning on DVD. If you have to change, Mark Von Lanken uses Edius, as you probably know, and it does mixed footage real well. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

November 3rd, 2011, 10:25 AM	#5
Ron German Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Posts: 304	Re: Vegas 11 + Cineform Neo= Crash Thank you Jeff, I`m trying Premiere Pro 5.5 and it seems to be rock solid. Not user friendly like Vegas, but everything works. Regards

November 4th, 2011, 05:55 AM	#6
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: Vegas 11 + Cineform Neo= Crash "Not user friendly" is putting it mildly. I have it and won't install it, probably ever again. Every little thing I seem to be able to do with Vegas is like pulling teeth in Premier, and many things I take for granted in Vegas I cannot do at all in Premier. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."