shooting for web - need help with AVCHD

[Jerry Amende]

I haven't kept up with this in recent months, so the following comment may be dated (i.e. wrong), so if others have further info, please correct me.

At one time, YouTube did not do a good job of processing 1080 video see: Sony Creative Software - Forums - Vegas Pro - Video Messages and HandBrake did a better job at resizing than YouTube. Furthermore, it is easier to stream (i.e. progressively download) 720p and many folks don't have 1920x1080 monitors anyway, so 720p is (was?) a sweet spot for viewing.

Now, all that may have changed recently - so if anyone has more recent info, I'd like to hear it.

...Jerry

[Federico Perale]

Originally Posted by Jerry Amende

I haven't kept up with this in recent months, so the following comment may be dated (i.e. wrong), so if others have further info, please correct me.

At one time, YouTube did not do a good job of processing 1080 video see: Sony Creative Software - Forums - Vegas Pro - Video Messages and HandBrake did a better job at resizing than YouTube. Furthermore, it is easier to stream (i.e. progressively download) 720p and many folks don't have 1920x1080 monitors anyway, so 720p is (was?) a sweet spot for viewing.

Now, all that may have changed recently - so if anyone has more recent info, I'd like to hear it.

...Jerry

thanks Jerry. if that's confirmed clearly there's merit in still using DNxHD and Handbrake as per method 2.
I think the emphasis (I gather) as key points to get the best are
1) shoot 1920*1080 at the maximum bitrate your camcorder allows (in my case 24Mbits), possibly progressive
2) once in Vegas, disable smart resample (that's me)
3) add "levels" plug in to balance the colours (computer RGB>studio RGB)
4) render to DNxHD intermediate codec using "best" render setting
5) render and resize to 720p using the suggested parameters with Handbrake

[Jerry Amende]

Federico,

Good summary!

...Jerry

[Seth Bloombaum]

Purely subjective, but I think 720p web distribution is still a sweet spot, even if acquiring in 1080i/p.

Although I have Vegas running on some heavier hardware, for my day to day I'm running a Core2Duo laptop, with a 1280x800 display. 720p looks great on it, for an increase in bitrate 1080p doesn't look any better.

But, even when I jump up to a 24" editing monitor at, um, 1920x1200, 720p still looks great.

Call me crazy if you will, but, even in an era of Youtube and increasing broadband access (urban more than rural), I think a "good enough" resolution of 720p at a relatively lower bitrate is better!

There are more and more 1080i/p (native resolution) projectors out there in home theaters, but I think that is still a small percentage; most are less than 720p.

[Robin Davies-Rollinson]

Seth, I agree with you completely.
Whether I shoot at 1920 or not, I find that 720p is more than adequate for web purposes. In fact, if I know that the job is only for web use, I now shoot (with the Canon XF300) at 720 50p. This format even makes burning a SD DVD so much easier from within Vegas.

[Kawika Ohumukini]

Originally Posted by Robin Davies-Rollinson

Seth, I agree with you completely.
Whether I shoot at 1920 or not, I find that 720p is more than adequate for web purposes. In fact, if I know that the job is only for web use, I now shoot (with the Canon XF300) at 720 50p. This format even makes burning a SD DVD so much easier from within Vegas.

++1. As a viewer I rarely watch 1080p when it's available because of the network load and buffering issues with most video sites. In general, 720p is just right on videos where I need to see a lot of detail like text on their monitor. The times I do watch 1080p are when I have a hardline to my router on my fast system with a 28" monitor. Otherwise, my MacPro likes 720p just fine. Cheers

[Federico Perale]

the tutorial assumes you are starting from 1080 60i and asks you to configure AVID as DNxHD 145 8 bit.

but because I start with 25p should I have 3 options at 8 bit: 36, 120 or 185? which is the one to use?

I also assume that working with 25p (in 50i) is the same as 25p for the sake of this tutorial? can anyone confirm?

[Roy Feldman]

If you also want an archive copy I have been saving in DNxHD but in 10bit as the latest build of Handbreak can now use 10bit files.

[Federico Perale]

Originally Posted by Roy Feldman

If you also want an archive copy I have been saving in DNxHD but in 10bit as the latest build of Handbreak can now use 10bit files.

thanks but what is the difference in using 36, 120 or 185? which one should i use?

[Jerry Amende]

The release version of HandBrake only supports 8 bit, the "36, 120 or 185" indicates the bitrate of the render. I would think 120 would be a good selection.

...Jerry

[Federico Perale]

when I try to create a custom profile with Handbrake, it allows me to use 1920*1080, but will then force change it to 1920*1088 as soon as I load my video (even if I tick off the "keep ratio")

anyone knows why is that?

[Jerry Amende]

Originally Posted by Federico Perale

when I try to create a custom profile with Handbrake, it allows me to use 1920*1080, but will then force change it to 1920*1088 as soon as I load my video (even if I tick off the "keep ratio")

anyone knows why is that?

Yup, it's because HandBrake works best rendering to modulus 16 framesize. That is, 1088 is evenly divisible by 16. If you change the modulus to 8, you can set the width to 1080.

What I'm not sure of ('cuz I've always used HandBrake for resizing and accepted the modulus 16 framesize) is whether it will make any difference in the quality of your render.

...Jerry

[Seth Bloombaum]

Try changing Handbrake's "Anamorphic" setting from "Strict" to "None", and see if your desired size sticks...

[Federico Perale]

Originally Posted by Jerry Amende

Federico,

Good summary!

...Jerry

hi Jerry
strangely I've tried to use this method after using Magic Bullet, and I find that if I apply the Levels plug-in in the way explained by the video, the blacks end up more crushed and there is a lot more contrast than in the original clip, kind of the opposite of what I wanted to achieve using the Computer RGB to Studio...

--edit--
I have done a few extra tests and noticed, as explained in the video, that the "output start" parameter in Computer RGB to Studio plugin is quite key.

with an ungraded clip I find I need to put that output start to 0, as suggested by the tutorial as a correction sometimes needed for some specific camcorders.
for graded clips I noticed, today, that I need to keep it to what the video calls default value for output start, which is 0.063
if I use 0 for graded clips (at least this happens with MBL) the contrast remains too high defeating the purpose...

has anyone noticed that too? it seems the the Computer to Studio doesn't necessarily have one setup for all occasions...or maybe I am wrong?

[Jerry Amende]

Federico,

I'm don't know much about Magic Bulllet, but I would suggest you make sure that Sony Levels is the last FX in your FX chain. Then use your Video Scope Histogram to adjust the Levels Output Start & Output End to get Luminance into the 16-235 range.

...Jerry