Vegas iFrame/upscale issue with Cineform AVIs at DVinfo.net

Stuart Campbell · October 13th, 2011, 02:24 AM

In a substantial 1080p project the timeline includes:

720p Cineform AVIs digitised from 2007 to 2009
XDCam sd rushes
5d rushes encoded to AVI using Cineform HDLink from NeoScene

If I render any portion of the timeline containing some 720p clips to an AVI encoded with a Cineform codec and then try to use that AVI anywhere it will crash Vegas or fail to play in any application. The AVI is clearly corrupt.

If I render the same segment to any other AVI codec the clip is fine. No problems.

The issue comes from Vegas not scaling some of the Cineform 720p material. If I add an effect I have a useable workaround and Vegas will scale OK.

Now here's the strange bit. Some of the 720p clips render fine and the Cineform AVI is OK. There is no difference between the bad and good rushes clips as they were digitised at the same time from the same tape.

For some unknown reason Vegas is failing to scale the same 720p clips all the time whilst scaling the rest without issue. I've analysed the offending and good 720p material in Virtualdub and found NO difference as far as iFrames is concerned.

So what is Vegas doing?

I should add that Vegas has no trouble scaling any other non 1080p material in this project to Cineform and that I've successfully used the seemingly dodgy rushes in the past without problem. Given that I can render the same clips to ANY other codec without issue leads me to believe this is only an issue with Vegas and certain Cineform files.

Anyone got any ideas? I've had Cineform look at this and whilst they were heroes in finding the workaround they are, at the moment, stumped as to why Vegas is choosing to fail on particular clips.

I'd love some suggestions as to what Vegas is up to! thanks...

Gerald Webb · October 13th, 2011, 04:25 AM

What Vegas is up to...I have no idea.
but,
My only suggestion is to encode your clips in Vegas rather than HD Link.
Ive had 2 multicam shoots where I have tried to get a jump start by encoding whole folder lots of raw cam files through HD Link, then for days afterwards getting multiple crashes (even on Vegas start up), strange 720p behavior in 1080p comps (720 upscaled ok in preview, then renders out at actual 720p size rather than 1080p), and the cursed upside down random pink tint frames.
Anyway, 99.9% was cleared up when I dragged my cam files into Vegas and rendered 1 file for each cam to Cineform from the Vegas timeline.
No more crashes, 720 plays nice in 1080 comps.
Still get the occasional pink frames but only when time remapping, so now anything with time changes I render to Lagarith first and all is good.
Good luck.

Stuart Campbell · October 13th, 2011, 11:00 AM

Thanks Gerald

Thanks for your suggestion but the problem is that I can't render these clips out of the timeline to Cineform and then use them at all. So even the option of converting the rushes individually isn't going to work.

An alternative is to re-digitise the clips straight into Vegas as M2t files. As you can imagine, I'm not exactly very keen on the idea of digging out old tapes from the dusty boxes when they have already been digitised successfuly in the past.

The issue is not in the rushes it's what Vegas is deciding to do with them.

and now......to compound the issue I'm unable to render out to a WMV. If I add FX to the outgoing render I can render the whole timeline to Cineform OK,. Now if I render that file to a WMV I'm getting 5 fps.

So I can't even render anything for client evaluation online!

Typically all this has happened at the end of a project. Unistalling and reinstalling isn't an option at this stage!

October 13th, 2011, 02:24 AM	#1
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	Vegas iFrame/upscale issue with Cineform AVIs In a substantial 1080p project the timeline includes: 720p Cineform AVIs digitised from 2007 to 2009 XDCam sd rushes 5d rushes encoded to AVI using Cineform HDLink from NeoScene If I render any portion of the timeline containing some 720p clips to an AVI encoded with a Cineform codec and then try to use that AVI anywhere it will crash Vegas or fail to play in any application. The AVI is clearly corrupt. If I render the same segment to any other AVI codec the clip is fine. No problems. The issue comes from Vegas not scaling some of the Cineform 720p material. If I add an effect I have a useable workaround and Vegas will scale OK. Now here's the strange bit. Some of the 720p clips render fine and the Cineform AVI is OK. There is no difference between the bad and good rushes clips as they were digitised at the same time from the same tape. For some unknown reason Vegas is failing to scale the same 720p clips all the time whilst scaling the rest without issue. I've analysed the offending and good 720p material in Virtualdub and found NO difference as far as iFrames is concerned. So what is Vegas doing? I should add that Vegas has no trouble scaling any other non 1080p material in this project to Cineform and that I've successfully used the seemingly dodgy rushes in the past without problem. Given that I can render the same clips to ANY other codec without issue leads me to believe this is only an issue with Vegas and certain Cineform files. Anyone got any ideas? I've had Cineform look at this and whilst they were heroes in finding the workaround they are, at the moment, stumped as to why Vegas is choosing to fail on particular clips. I'd love some suggestions as to what Vegas is up to! thanks...

October 13th, 2011, 04:25 AM	#2
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	Re: Vegas iFrame/upscale issue with Cineform AVIs What Vegas is up to...I have no idea. but, My only suggestion is to encode your clips in Vegas rather than HD Link. Ive had 2 multicam shoots where I have tried to get a jump start by encoding whole folder lots of raw cam files through HD Link, then for days afterwards getting multiple crashes (even on Vegas start up), strange 720p behavior in 1080p comps (720 upscaled ok in preview, then renders out at actual 720p size rather than 1080p), and the cursed upside down random pink tint frames. Anyway, 99.9% was cleared up when I dragged my cam files into Vegas and rendered 1 file for each cam to Cineform from the Vegas timeline. No more crashes, 720 plays nice in 1080 comps. Still get the occasional pink frames but only when time remapping, so now anything with time changes I render to Lagarith first and all is good. Good luck. __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo

October 13th, 2011, 11:00 AM	#3
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	Re: Vegas iFrame/upscale issue with Cineform AVIs Thanks Gerald Thanks for your suggestion but the problem is that I can't render these clips out of the timeline to Cineform and then use them at all. So even the option of converting the rushes individually isn't going to work. An alternative is to re-digitise the clips straight into Vegas as M2t files. As you can imagine, I'm not exactly very keen on the idea of digging out old tapes from the dusty boxes when they have already been digitised successfuly in the past. The issue is not in the rushes it's what Vegas is deciding to do with them. and now......to compound the issue I'm unable to render out to a WMV. If I add FX to the outgoing render I can render the whole timeline to Cineform OK,. Now if I render that file to a WMV I'm getting 5 fps. So I can't even render anything for client evaluation online! Typically all this has happened at the end of a project. Unistalling and reinstalling isn't an option at this stage!