Why does vegas darken my footage?? at DVinfo.net

Michael Herrick · August 11th, 2011, 11:00 PM

Hey all, So I've just recently noticed that my sony vegas pro 10 program seems to darken my footage when I bring it into the timeline. When i preview it, it looks good, but when i drag it into the timeline then play the project, it looks significantly darker, it crushes the blacks and looks really bad. How do I make it so it doesn't automatically darken my footage? I've tried correcting it with effects by using curves and other things, but it never looks like the original, so what do I do?
Here's a screen shot of an example of what it is doing, look at the preview monitor compared to the project monitor and note how much darker it is!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4.../Capture-1.jpg

Chris Harding · August 11th, 2011, 11:39 PM

Hi Michael

Are you previewing the footage on the camera or somewhere else?? To make an accurate comparison you would need to compare on the same monitor between pre-Vegas preview and timeline preview.

You screen shot is really too tiny to see anything accurately but I must admit I don't use my trimmer at all and preview is also done on a second monitor and my footage looks pretty accurate!! You have preview on (Full) Is it also set to "Best" ????

Chris

Phil Lee · August 12th, 2011, 12:16 AM

Hi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Herrick

Hey all, So I've just recently noticed that my sony vegas pro 10 program seems to darken my footage when I bring it into the timeline. When i preview it, it looks good, but when i drag it into the timeline then play the project, it looks significantly darker, it crushes the blacks and looks really bad. How do I make it so it doesn't automatically darken my footage? I've tried correcting it with effects by using curves and other things, but it never looks like the original, so what do I do?
Here's a screen shot of an example of what it is doing, look at the preview monitor compared to the project monitor and note how much darker it is!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4.../Capture-1.jpg

Could be a 'levels' issue.

What are you previewing on? Is it a second computer monitor? What are your source files?

Regards

Phil

Michael Herrick · August 12th, 2011, 02:41 PM

this is my only computer monitor, I am only comparing it inside vegas, before it is on the timeline and after, and even in that small screenshot, the image on the right looks noticeably darker, just look at the shadows on the trail, even though it is the same file. The files are the native files from my t2i, which are on my main hard drive.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · August 12th, 2011, 02:49 PM

I have to ask: what does it look like when you've rendered out the clips?

Phil Lee · August 12th, 2011, 03:17 PM

Hi

The preview Window in Sony Vegas is usually wrong because it wants Computer RGB levels. When you add most video files to the time line they are Studio RGB levels.

The preview in the trimmer window (your left hand preview in your screen shot) is completely out, it is the same on mine, the levels are all wrong.

To correct the preview press Control + Shift + B which gives you an overall video track at the bottom. Click add filter and select a Sony Levels filter, then use the Preset 'Studio RGB to Computer RGB'. This will now give you the correct levels in the preview window. WARNING: When you come to render out you need to remove the filter, otherwise the levels will be wrong.

There is nothing as far as I know that you can change for the trimmer preview to make it look correct, which usually isn't important any as the preview isn't there for colour/brightness adjustments, it's just for you trim the video.

Regardless of the problem currently, without doing anything above when you render out the levels should be correct anyway, i.e. it's the preview window that is incorrect.

Regards

Phil

Gerald Webb · August 13th, 2011, 02:50 AM

Just been playing with this,
If you have dual monitors you can either-
apply an output levels FX- Computer RGB to Studio RGB, and use the Preview Window,
or,
Go, Options-Preferences-Preview Device-Use color management-SRGB 16-235.
Then use your second monitor as a full screen preview.

Ive checked as well as I can with the scopes, but it seems to me that both ways achieve the same end, but with the second monitor full screen preview my processor load seems lower than when using the FX way.

Can anybody verify that my findings are right?

Phil Lee · August 13th, 2011, 04:52 AM

Hi

That seems opposite of what I would expect.

The preview monitors in Vegas all want Computer RGB, the exception is a preview on a second monitor which as you discovered can be switched to use Studio RGB, but by default unless changed is wanting computer levels.

If you have HD video on the timeline, it's levels are Studio RGB, so the preview monitors wanting Computer RGB expect black to be 0 and white to be 255, but Studio RGB is black at 16 and white around 235, so what you see looks washed out with black becoming grey and white becoming light grey.

When you add a filter to convert Studio to Computer levels, it adjusts the RGB values so that 16 becomes 0 and 235 becomes 255, so now black that was at 16 looking grey, now is at 0 and is proper black.

Without adding the filter but changing the setting to 16-235 on an external monitor, it essentially does the same thing but just on the external monitor, so your levels are correct for preview. The smaller preview window above the timeline can't be set to 16-235, so the only option is to use a filter, and if using both, so on an external monitor as well as the smaller preview, if levels are adjusted to Computer you'd want the external monitor output set to computer and not 16-235, as otherwise you are getting two shifts on the external monitor, so it would look very contrasty.

The problem is, when you are finished and output to virtually all codecs (using 8 bit or 32 bit video levels), they are wanting to see Studio levels not computer, so if you have added a Studio to Computer filter to correct the preview window, you must remove it, otherwise your final output is wrong.

Images: if you add a photo to the timeline, then photo's are Computer levels, so if you are mixing it with video you should add a Computer to Studio RGB filter on just the photo, so that everything on the timeline is all at the same level, in this case Studio level. The trick is to keep everything the same on the time line, so sometimes you might need a filter to shift the level.

Generally for HD video, it's studio level in, and you want studio level out, so no level filters are required, except where you might be wanting more accurate pictures in the preview window. If you have second monitor it is safer to set the preferences to 16-235 for it, as that has no effect on the output, you still get Studio in Studio out, and can't forget to remove the level filter on final render.

Regards

Phil

August 11th, 2011, 11:00 PM	#1
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Why does vegas darken my footage?? Hey all, So I've just recently noticed that my sony vegas pro 10 program seems to darken my footage when I bring it into the timeline. When i preview it, it looks good, but when i drag it into the timeline then play the project, it looks significantly darker, it crushes the blacks and looks really bad. How do I make it so it doesn't automatically darken my footage? I've tried correcting it with effects by using curves and other things, but it never looks like the original, so what do I do? Here's a screen shot of an example of what it is doing, look at the preview monitor compared to the project monitor and note how much darker it is! http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b4.../Capture-1.jpg

August 11th, 2011, 11:39 PM	#2
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Why does vegas darken my footage?? Hi Michael Are you previewing the footage on the camera or somewhere else?? To make an accurate comparison you would need to compare on the same monitor between pre-Vegas preview and timeline preview. You screen shot is really too tiny to see anything accurately but I must admit I don't use my trimmer at all and preview is also done on a second monitor and my footage looks pretty accurate!! You have preview on (Full) Is it also set to "Best" ???? Chris

August 12th, 2011, 02:41 PM	#4
Michael Herrick Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, California Posts: 108	Re: Why does vegas darken my footage?? this is my only computer monitor, I am only comparing it inside vegas, before it is on the timeline and after, and even in that small screenshot, the image on the right looks noticeably darker, just look at the shadows on the trail, even though it is the same file. The files are the native files from my t2i, which are on my main hard drive.

August 12th, 2011, 02:49 PM	#5
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Re: Why does vegas darken my footage?? I have to ask: what does it look like when you've rendered out the clips? __________________ TV Director / Cameraman

August 12th, 2011, 03:17 PM	#6
Phil Lee Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 302	Re: Why does vegas darken my footage?? Hi The preview Window in Sony Vegas is usually wrong because it wants Computer RGB levels. When you add most video files to the time line they are Studio RGB levels. The preview in the trimmer window (your left hand preview in your screen shot) is completely out, it is the same on mine, the levels are all wrong. To correct the preview press Control + Shift + B which gives you an overall video track at the bottom. Click add filter and select a Sony Levels filter, then use the Preset 'Studio RGB to Computer RGB'. This will now give you the correct levels in the preview window. WARNING: When you come to render out you need to remove the filter, otherwise the levels will be wrong. There is nothing as far as I know that you can change for the trimmer preview to make it look correct, which usually isn't important any as the preview isn't there for colour/brightness adjustments, it's just for you trim the video. Regardless of the problem currently, without doing anything above when you render out the levels should be correct anyway, i.e. it's the preview window that is incorrect. Regards Phil

August 13th, 2011, 02:50 AM	#7
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	Re: Why does vegas darken my footage?? Just been playing with this, If you have dual monitors you can either- apply an output levels FX- Computer RGB to Studio RGB, and use the Preview Window, or, Go, Options-Preferences-Preview Device-Use color management-SRGB 16-235. Then use your second monitor as a full screen preview. Ive checked as well as I can with the scopes, but it seems to me that both ways achieve the same end, but with the second monitor full screen preview my processor load seems lower than when using the FX way. Can anybody verify that my findings are right? __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo

August 13th, 2011, 04:52 AM	#8
Phil Lee Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 302	Re: Why does vegas darken my footage?? Hi That seems opposite of what I would expect. The preview monitors in Vegas all want Computer RGB, the exception is a preview on a second monitor which as you discovered can be switched to use Studio RGB, but by default unless changed is wanting computer levels. If you have HD video on the timeline, it's levels are Studio RGB, so the preview monitors wanting Computer RGB expect black to be 0 and white to be 255, but Studio RGB is black at 16 and white around 235, so what you see looks washed out with black becoming grey and white becoming light grey. When you add a filter to convert Studio to Computer levels, it adjusts the RGB values so that 16 becomes 0 and 235 becomes 255, so now black that was at 16 looking grey, now is at 0 and is proper black. Without adding the filter but changing the setting to 16-235 on an external monitor, it essentially does the same thing but just on the external monitor, so your levels are correct for preview. The smaller preview window above the timeline can't be set to 16-235, so the only option is to use a filter, and if using both, so on an external monitor as well as the smaller preview, if levels are adjusted to Computer you'd want the external monitor output set to computer and not 16-235, as otherwise you are getting two shifts on the external monitor, so it would look very contrasty. The problem is, when you are finished and output to virtually all codecs (using 8 bit or 32 bit video levels), they are wanting to see Studio levels not computer, so if you have added a Studio to Computer filter to correct the preview window, you must remove it, otherwise your final output is wrong. Images: if you add a photo to the timeline, then photo's are Computer levels, so if you are mixing it with video you should add a Computer to Studio RGB filter on just the photo, so that everything on the timeline is all at the same level, in this case Studio level. The trick is to keep everything the same on the time line, so sometimes you might need a filter to shift the level. Generally for HD video, it's studio level in, and you want studio level out, so no level filters are required, except where you might be wanting more accurate pictures in the preview window. If you have second monitor it is safer to set the preferences to 16-235 for it, as that has no effect on the output, you still get Studio in Studio out, and can't forget to remove the level filter on final render. Regards Phil