Amateur Recital Video Editing

Ron Evans · June 20th, 2011, 02:40 PM

It isn't so much the cost of Bluray discs which have come down in price its the time it takes to burn them. For SD 8 times is a reasonable copy speed but for Bluray its more like 2 times. So with a verify that is going to be almost an hour for each disc. I think you need to charge a bit more than $10 !!!!!! Bulk reproduction in our area is $20 with a minimum I think of 20 discs. Burn time will be proportional if you use a 50G disc but you have a more expensive coaster if it doesn't work!!!

For 2 hours and 40 mins then AVC encode will give you the same quality as your original 17Mbps AVCHD. However it may take your computer a day to encode from the Vegas timeline. !!!! MPEG2 VBR will be quicker with AVE bit rate at about 22000, MAX 28000 and you will not notice much difference from the original and will encode in about 2 times realtime, so about 5 hours. You will be able to replace the media in DVD Architect and change project settings to Bluray and all your authoring will stay the same.

Ron Evans

Brad Ridgeway · June 20th, 2011, 04:39 PM

I just finished watching my 2hr 20min DVD on my 32" plasma with an upconverting DVD player and it looks SO MUCH BETTER than when played with the "cheap" DVD player I was using prior. I can't believe the difference - it actually looks REALLY GOOD! I also watched the last 5 years worth of DVDs from this same recital and my picture quality is better than all of them so I am feeling more confident going with what I have on the 2 disks.

As far as Blu Ray, can I use the intermediate Cineform AVI files in DVD Architect to create the Blu Ray disks or should I re-render out of Vegas as AVCHD or MPEG2? I already have these files rendered out of Vegas to do the resizing in TMPGEnc. Does DVD Architect do a good job of encoding for Blu Ray or should I work with TMPGEnc for the Blu Ray also?

Ron Evans · June 20th, 2011, 06:18 PM

I would render from Vegas with your original files to the DVD Architect Bluray preset for MPEG2. You could also use the Cineform files in TMPGenc to the Bluray preset as that too is DVD Architect compliant and that way you can see what data rate you should use to get the level you want from the scale. Once you know the data rate you can encode from either TMPGenc with the Cineform files or from Vegas to the Bluray preset.

Ron Evans

Eric Olson · June 21st, 2011, 12:45 PM

To fit 4.5 hours of video on a 25GB blu-ray disk the bitrate should be about 12mbps. At this bitrate it is better to use H264 rather than mpeg2 encoding. Since DVD Architect doesn't ingest all blu-ray complaint H264 video streams, I would recommend using the encoders provided with Vegas.

Brad Ridgeway · June 21st, 2011, 01:11 PM

Thanks Eric for the advice. I wasn't sure if I should try to fit the whole show onto one Blu-ray or keep with two Blu-ray discs as I am doing with the DVD set.

I'll consider the Blu-ray more after I finish the DVD package. I just found mistakes in the titling on both DVDs so I am in the process of re-rendering both out of Vegas and then will need to re-encode too with TMPGEnc before I can get to my authoring in DVD Architect. Then I'll have about 70 of each disc to burn, label, and package.

I'm going to put a note in the DVD package offering a Blu-ray copy for an additional charge. Once the DVDs are delivered, I'll start working on a Blu-ray version. Even if no-one requests it, I still want to try one for my own experience. It seems like most of the work for Blu-ray will already be done from the DVD project, but will have to be re-encoded and possibly re-authored if it's all on one disc.

Eric Olson · June 21st, 2011, 01:58 PM

Dear Brad,

That sounds like a good plan.

Do you think the blu-ray disk offer should have an expiration date?

All the best, Eric

Ron Evans · June 22nd, 2011, 07:11 AM

Don't put labels on DVD as this is a real opportunity for playback problems either immediately or after some time for the balance etc to shift. Use printable media and print on an Epson printer ( for example ) will give much better quality results.

Ron Evans

Eric Olson · June 22nd, 2011, 07:55 AM

For 140 DVDs you might consider sending the job to a duplicating house. For a double DVD package the price should be less than 4$ per unit.

Brad Ridgeway · June 22nd, 2011, 08:53 AM

I've already found somewhere online that will duplicate at a price of $1.09 each (disc) per qty of 100 (plus shipping) but I'm already out of $$ so I am going to attempt to do it myself. I started this project with nothing and have since bought 2 cameras, 2 tripods, storage media, PC upgrades, software, etc. This has definately been a learning experience and if I ever do it again, I will definately charge more for the DVDs. Because of my lack of confidence in what I may be able to produce, I let these DVDs go for a pretty low cost.

I know there are arguments for and against "sticking" labels on DVDs, but I personnally have never had a problem with a CD or DVD that has had a label applied to it. It's a risk I am willing to take. Many of the DVDs from the last several years of this same recital have stick-on labels on them too and my goal from the beginning of this project (as an amateur with NO experience) was to do at least as good as past DVDs at a lower cost. I have already purchased the blank media, labels, and cases for really good deals from online sources and am prepared to have a go at it!

Since I now have a Blu-ray burner in addition to my DVD burner, I am hoping to be able to burn 2 discs simultaneously, but I haven't researched yet to see how feasible that is. My thoughts are that I can have the source files for disc1 on one hard drive and the source files for disc2 on another hard drive and burn both discs simultaneously on separate burners. Anyone have any experience with this?

Eric Olson · June 22nd, 2011, 09:41 AM

I would strongly recommend a DVD Sharpie

Sharpie | Sharpie CD/DVD Permanent Marker

instead of the sticky labels. Any label can warp the disk and cheap labels are much more likely to do this than expensive ones. Then concentrate on artwork for the dvd box.

Ron Evans · June 22nd, 2011, 11:32 AM

Most burning software like Nero will burn multiple discs at the same time from the files on the PC. It is however best to have two of the same burner for max performance. Don't do anything else on the PC while the discs are burning and make sure verify is turned on to ensure discs are verified after burn.
I would still recommend against using labels. At best they have to be put on with a jig to ensure they are in the absolute center of the disc or they will not play on most players. For that number of discs a local reproduction house will make and print on them a lot quicker than you could do them and at higher quality.

Ron Evans

Eric Olson · June 22nd, 2011, 04:40 PM

If it takes 20 minutes to write a DVD, apply the sticky label and verify it, then it will take 46 hours to write 140 of them. At minimum wage this is 340 dollars of work. Since duplication costs a dollar a disk, you could make an extra 200 dollars by sending the disks to a duplication house.

Brad Ridgeway · July 12th, 2011, 09:11 AM

I apologize for not posting back in this thread to let you all know the outcome of the recital video. I had posted an upate in my other thread in the "Wedding / Event Videography Techniques" section but failed to realize that not evryone here had subscribed to that thread (thanks Eric for the reminder). Here's the post from the other thread....

"I just wanted to check back in here to thank my team (all of you) for the support and advice that you provided for this recital video production. If I hadn't come to this forum seeking advice, I would have failed miserably as I wouldn't have had adequate equipment from the start.

My DVD set is complete - captured, edited, resized, authored, packaged, and ready for delivery! I sold a total of 65 copies. In the beginning of this thread I mentioned that (as an amateur with NO experience) I wanted to be able to produce a video that was at least as good as those of prior years' recitals. After finishing my product and reviewing it along side the last 5 years of DVDs, I feel very confident that I have met (and exceded) my goal! You all helped make it happen!

I now have a wedding that I am doing this Friday! Some friends are having a simple outdoor wedding ceremony and reception and weren't planning to hire a videographer, so I volunteered to do a video for them. I had so much fun with the recital video, I just couldn't wait for another project!

Thanks again for all the support and confidence that you have given me! I'll look forward to more on future projects!"

Since that post on June 29th, I have received good feedback from a few customers, so I am pretty pleased with the outcome! Thanks to everyone who helped out in this Vegas thread too!

June 20th, 2011, 02:40 PM	#76
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing It isn't so much the cost of Bluray discs which have come down in price its the time it takes to burn them. For SD 8 times is a reasonable copy speed but for Bluray its more like 2 times. So with a verify that is going to be almost an hour for each disc. I think you need to charge a bit more than $10 !!!!!! Bulk reproduction in our area is $20 with a minimum I think of 20 discs. Burn time will be proportional if you use a 50G disc but you have a more expensive coaster if it doesn't work!!! For 2 hours and 40 mins then AVC encode will give you the same quality as your original 17Mbps AVCHD. However it may take your computer a day to encode from the Vegas timeline. !!!! MPEG2 VBR will be quicker with AVE bit rate at about 22000, MAX 28000 and you will not notice much difference from the original and will encode in about 2 times realtime, so about 5 hours. You will be able to replace the media in DVD Architect and change project settings to Bluray and all your authoring will stay the same. Ron Evans

June 20th, 2011, 04:39 PM	#77
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I just finished watching my 2hr 20min DVD on my 32" plasma with an upconverting DVD player and it looks SO MUCH BETTER than when played with the "cheap" DVD player I was using prior. I can't believe the difference - it actually looks REALLY GOOD! I also watched the last 5 years worth of DVDs from this same recital and my picture quality is better than all of them so I am feeling more confident going with what I have on the 2 disks. As far as Blu Ray, can I use the intermediate Cineform AVI files in DVD Architect to create the Blu Ray disks or should I re-render out of Vegas as AVCHD or MPEG2? I already have these files rendered out of Vegas to do the resizing in TMPGEnc. Does DVD Architect do a good job of encoding for Blu Ray or should I work with TMPGEnc for the Blu Ray also?

June 20th, 2011, 06:18 PM	#78
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I would render from Vegas with your original files to the DVD Architect Bluray preset for MPEG2. You could also use the Cineform files in TMPGenc to the Bluray preset as that too is DVD Architect compliant and that way you can see what data rate you should use to get the level you want from the scale. Once you know the data rate you can encode from either TMPGenc with the Cineform files or from Vegas to the Bluray preset. Ron Evans

June 21st, 2011, 12:45 PM	#79
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing To fit 4.5 hours of video on a 25GB blu-ray disk the bitrate should be about 12mbps. At this bitrate it is better to use H264 rather than mpeg2 encoding. Since DVD Architect doesn't ingest all blu-ray complaint H264 video streams, I would recommend using the encoders provided with Vegas.

June 21st, 2011, 01:11 PM	#80
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Thanks Eric for the advice. I wasn't sure if I should try to fit the whole show onto one Blu-ray or keep with two Blu-ray discs as I am doing with the DVD set. I'll consider the Blu-ray more after I finish the DVD package. I just found mistakes in the titling on both DVDs so I am in the process of re-rendering both out of Vegas and then will need to re-encode too with TMPGEnc before I can get to my authoring in DVD Architect. Then I'll have about 70 of each disc to burn, label, and package. I'm going to put a note in the DVD package offering a Blu-ray copy for an additional charge. Once the DVDs are delivered, I'll start working on a Blu-ray version. Even if no-one requests it, I still want to try one for my own experience. It seems like most of the work for Blu-ray will already be done from the DVD project, but will have to be re-encoded and possibly re-authored if it's all on one disc.

June 21st, 2011, 01:58 PM	#81
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Dear Brad, That sounds like a good plan. Do you think the blu-ray disk offer should have an expiration date? All the best, Eric

June 22nd, 2011, 07:11 AM	#82
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Don't put labels on DVD as this is a real opportunity for playback problems either immediately or after some time for the balance etc to shift. Use printable media and print on an Epson printer ( for example ) will give much better quality results. Ron Evans

June 22nd, 2011, 07:55 AM	#83
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing For 140 DVDs you might consider sending the job to a duplicating house. For a double DVD package the price should be less than 4$ per unit.

June 22nd, 2011, 08:53 AM	#84
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I've already found somewhere online that will duplicate at a price of $1.09 each (disc) per qty of 100 (plus shipping) but I'm already out of $$ so I am going to attempt to do it myself. I started this project with nothing and have since bought 2 cameras, 2 tripods, storage media, PC upgrades, software, etc. This has definately been a learning experience and if I ever do it again, I will definately charge more for the DVDs. Because of my lack of confidence in what I may be able to produce, I let these DVDs go for a pretty low cost. I know there are arguments for and against "sticking" labels on DVDs, but I personnally have never had a problem with a CD or DVD that has had a label applied to it. It's a risk I am willing to take. Many of the DVDs from the last several years of this same recital have stick-on labels on them too and my goal from the beginning of this project (as an amateur with NO experience) was to do at least as good as past DVDs at a lower cost. I have already purchased the blank media, labels, and cases for really good deals from online sources and am prepared to have a go at it! Since I now have a Blu-ray burner in addition to my DVD burner, I am hoping to be able to burn 2 discs simultaneously, but I haven't researched yet to see how feasible that is. My thoughts are that I can have the source files for disc1 on one hard drive and the source files for disc2 on another hard drive and burn both discs simultaneously on separate burners. Anyone have any experience with this?

June 22nd, 2011, 09:41 AM	#85
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I would strongly recommend a DVD Sharpie Sharpie \| Sharpie CD/DVD Permanent Marker instead of the sticky labels. Any label can warp the disk and cheap labels are much more likely to do this than expensive ones. Then concentrate on artwork for the dvd box.

June 22nd, 2011, 11:32 AM	#86
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing Most burning software like Nero will burn multiple discs at the same time from the files on the PC. It is however best to have two of the same burner for max performance. Don't do anything else on the PC while the discs are burning and make sure verify is turned on to ensure discs are verified after burn. I would still recommend against using labels. At best they have to be put on with a jig to ensure they are in the absolute center of the disc or they will not play on most players. For that number of discs a local reproduction house will make and print on them a lot quicker than you could do them and at higher quality. Ron Evans

June 22nd, 2011, 04:40 PM	#87
Eric Olson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 553	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing If it takes 20 minutes to write a DVD, apply the sticky label and verify it, then it will take 46 hours to write 140 of them. At minimum wage this is 340 dollars of work. Since duplication costs a dollar a disk, you could make an extra 200 dollars by sending the disks to a duplication house.

July 12th, 2011, 09:11 AM	#88
Brad Ridgeway Regular Crew Join Date: May 2011 Location: Warren, Ohio Posts: 108	Re: Amateur Recital Video Editing I apologize for not posting back in this thread to let you all know the outcome of the recital video. I had posted an upate in my other thread in the "Wedding / Event Videography Techniques" section but failed to realize that not evryone here had subscribed to that thread (thanks Eric for the reminder). Here's the post from the other thread.... "I just wanted to check back in here to thank my team (all of you) for the support and advice that you provided for this recital video production. If I hadn't come to this forum seeking advice, I would have failed miserably as I wouldn't have had adequate equipment from the start. My DVD set is complete - captured, edited, resized, authored, packaged, and ready for delivery! I sold a total of 65 copies. In the beginning of this thread I mentioned that (as an amateur with NO experience) I wanted to be able to produce a video that was at least as good as those of prior years' recitals. After finishing my product and reviewing it along side the last 5 years of DVDs, I feel very confident that I have met (and exceded) my goal! You all helped make it happen! I now have a wedding that I am doing this Friday! Some friends are having a simple outdoor wedding ceremony and reception and weren't planning to hire a videographer, so I volunteered to do a video for them. I had so much fun with the recital video, I just couldn't wait for another project! Thanks again for all the support and confidence that you have given me! I'll look forward to more on future projects!" Since that post on June 29th, I have received good feedback from a few customers, so I am pretty pleased with the outcome! Thanks to everyone who helped out in this Vegas thread too!