avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 at DVinfo.net

Richard Green · March 29th, 2011, 05:57 AM

Hello,
Can someone tell me why I can't get my Vegas pro 10 to render 1080i PAL mts files (from my camera) to
render as well (quality wise) as good as DVD Architect pro 5 does.
Meaning if I put a clip straight into architect and burn a Standard DVD the quality is far superior than from a file rendered by Vegas. If I use a vegas rendered file in architect and burn to dvd the end result has a double image on any motion giving a blurred effect.

I get good results using the SONY AVC codec but ocassionally lose the sound or some of the sound. Very strange.
I really need some tried and tested settings, as I'm running out of things to try.

Regards
Richard Green

David Johns · March 29th, 2011, 06:38 AM

When you render from Vegas, are you using the default "DVD Architect PAL Widescreen DVD" mpeg-2 setting for the video stream?

(I may have misremembered exactly what it's called but it's something like that)

Regards
David

Jeff Harper · March 29th, 2011, 06:40 AM

I cannot help on the specifics, since I'm in NTSC land, but it is clear your settings in Vegas are not optimum.

I personally wouldn't render AVCHD files 1080i without transcoding first in a third party program, though there are those that do, and some say with good results. The trick is to know the settings.

You might try rendering your project to avi first, then re-rendering in Vegas. It might take a couple of attempts to get it right.

Something else you might try; go to project properties for your project, and check the "Adjust source media to better match etc." then try and render your 1080i footage, see if that helps.

Richard Green · March 29th, 2011, 06:42 AM

Hello David,
Yes, I have tried that, with default and various settings, and results are not good.
Nowhere near as good as an mts file rendered by architect directly to dvd.

Regards & Thanks
Richard

Richard Green · March 29th, 2011, 06:51 AM

Hi Jeff,
I've done the project settings thing you mention, the little icon top right of the diologue box.

Why would rendering to AVI and then rerendering in vegas improve matters Jeff,not sure what you're
getting at!

In "theory" I would like vegas to "Render" as MTS and only render effects such as dissolves,fades etc without touching the original clips at all. But at the moment it is rendering everything.

What settings do you use and are your SD DVD's taken with HD camera better than your SD DVD's
taken with say a sd dv camera.
Regards
Richard

Jeff Harper · March 29th, 2011, 07:56 AM

This is a huge topic that has probably more threads devoted to it than any other, and many of those that are knoweldgeable about it are likely worn out discussing it. I know I am, and I'm still learning it.

I only know that after using HD link to encode my video to avi prior to editing the results were outstanding, and that is a method used by many people.

DVDA is simply doing a better job than you are of resizing, etc. You either need to learn how to resize your video using Vegas, which I can't help you with, or buy tmpgenc or cineform and use a different workflow.

I face the same issues as you, and have yet to select the software program I will use. My busy season is coming up and I must make a choice.

The scenario of people like you and me buying cameras, and then learning the painful truth of how difficult it can be to deal with the footage in post is happening daily.

What makes it trickier, is some avchd footage renders out fine for SD in Vegas, and some doesn't. I recently edited a wedding shot with a HMC-150 and tried to render it out to mpeg 2 and it worked perfectly, I was stunned with the results.

I've tried it with footage shot with my GH2, and it looked terrible. Part of it has to do with the settings used while shooting. 720p, I think might work better than 1080i. I don't know.

Richard Green · March 29th, 2011, 10:11 AM

Hi Jeff,
I'm sure people on this forum a sick and tired of the same questions regarding AVCHD to SD DVD, unfortunately I have found HD video to be not an exact science (I'm sure it is). Seems to be a lot of trial and error particularly if you don't know what you are doing. (like me at this stage). However, in the last few hours I have had some success and have found that if I set vegas properties to match the clips on the timeline but change the Deinterlace Method to Blend Fields, set the Render As to Sony AVC using the AVCHD 1920X1080-50i not customised apart from checking the sound is selected, producing an m2ts file.
And letting Architect do the resizing. It seems to have produced a very very smooth detailed dvd.
Just tried a few seconds of video and am now trying a longer run with a couple of dissolves and fades.

Does all this make sense, or am I way off target!

HD Link is it hardware or software.

Regards
Richard

Adam Stanislav · March 29th, 2011, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Green

HD Link is it hardware or software.

Blackmagic Design: HDLink

Jeff Harper · March 29th, 2011, 10:29 AM

No Adam, I'm not referring to Black magic, but to a cineform product that is part of NeoHD.

Richard, your project properties should match your footage, I think, but you can make the adjustments you mentioned in your render template (blending fields, etc.)

Ideally you don't want DVDA to recompress at all, not a good thing.

HD link that I'm referring to is software and part of the NeoHd software suite sold by Cineform. You can download a trial, which I did, and it works like a charm. Small learning curve with the settings, but not bad. It costs $400US. Very pricey for one little program, but there is none better for this job.

There is also tmpgenc, which is a consumer program that I have downloaded, but not tried. Some around here are using it successfully. I don't like it's interface, but I'm weird. It costs $100.

Go to the Cineform website, download the trial of NeoHd. You take your original footage, and render it to avi using hd link. Then you edit the avi version and render to mpeg 2. DVDA architect will then produce a close to perfect video for you.

There are ways to do this within Vegas, I have been told, but I have not learned how. The person who says it can be done did not share the specifics.

Adam Stanislav · March 29th, 2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

No Adam, I'm not referring to Black magic, but to a cineform product that is part of NeoHD.

Oh, I did not realize there were two separate products of the same name. Quite frankly, I was puzzled what the HDLink I knew about had to do with this topic. So, thanks for straightening it out. :)

Jeff Harper · March 29th, 2011, 10:55 AM

Adam, there are bunches of products named HD Link, I still don't understand why the freaking name is so popular. Very confusing.

Jeff Harper · March 29th, 2011, 11:19 AM

Richard, in the end if you stumble across a method for you that works you really don't have to do anything else.

You might try Cineform trial and then use that workflow once just to see if your results are any better than what you are currently getting. Trial is good for 14 days.

Jeff Harper · March 29th, 2011, 12:13 PM

Richard, I have been misinformed, and in turn I have misinformed you and many other people.

Apparently Cineform "Neoscene" does everything you and I need, and it costs $100, not $400.

Neoscene and HDlink are the same thing, apparently, but HDlink has more input options, which doesn't affect me.

Go here to download read more: Cineform Neoscene

Richard Green · March 29th, 2011, 03:47 PM

Hi to all and thanks for your input.
Jeff, my method didn't work on the longer video, the video was fine but the sound shrunk to about two thirds the length of the clip. But I think I know where I'm going now. I know what's causing the motion blur, not sure what I'm going to do about it yet, but working on it.
Thanks for the info regarding Neoscene, I will look into that, I also have software called Mainconcept Reference, which I think does a similar job, but haven't got my head round it yet.

Any more info about any of this would be appreciated, especially working settings.

Regards
Richard

Richard Green · March 30th, 2011, 06:30 AM

Hi all,
Still no takers, for my problem.
To recap I have an MTS file (1080 50i PAL) file on my time line, all I want to do is to
render to a suitable format for Architect to write a SD DVD. I've tried using mainconcept
mpeg2 and although it works, the quality is rubbish, anything in the video that moves
is a double image, so am sure it's to do with interlacing.
What I would like is some tried and tested settings.
Vegas 10 should be able to this without resorting to more expensive software, and
I'm sure it can. If I import the same mts clip straight from the camera into architect,
it works perfectly. Although Architect isn't happy using this file format.

Regards
Richard

March 29th, 2011, 05:57 AM	#1
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hello, Can someone tell me why I can't get my Vegas pro 10 to render 1080i PAL mts files (from my camera) to render as well (quality wise) as good as DVD Architect pro 5 does. Meaning if I put a clip straight into architect and burn a Standard DVD the quality is far superior than from a file rendered by Vegas. If I use a vegas rendered file in architect and burn to dvd the end result has a double image on any motion giving a blurred effect. I get good results using the SONY AVC codec but ocassionally lose the sound or some of the sound. Very strange. I really need some tried and tested settings, as I'm running out of things to try. Regards Richard Green

March 29th, 2011, 06:38 AM	#2
David Johns Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Maidstone, Kent, UK Posts: 190	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 When you render from Vegas, are you using the default "DVD Architect PAL Widescreen DVD" mpeg-2 setting for the video stream? (I may have misremembered exactly what it's called but it's something like that) Regards David __________________ www.tubeshooter.co.uk www.youtube.com/ukairscape and www.youtube.com/tubeshootermag

March 29th, 2011, 06:40 AM	#3
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 I cannot help on the specifics, since I'm in NTSC land, but it is clear your settings in Vegas are not optimum. I personally wouldn't render AVCHD files 1080i without transcoding first in a third party program, though there are those that do, and some say with good results. The trick is to know the settings. You might try rendering your project to avi first, then re-rendering in Vegas. It might take a couple of attempts to get it right. Something else you might try; go to project properties for your project, and check the "Adjust source media to better match etc." then try and render your 1080i footage, see if that helps. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 29th, 2011, 06:42 AM	#4
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hello David, Yes, I have tried that, with default and various settings, and results are not good. Nowhere near as good as an mts file rendered by architect directly to dvd. Regards & Thanks Richard

March 29th, 2011, 06:51 AM	#5
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi Jeff, I've done the project settings thing you mention, the little icon top right of the diologue box. Why would rendering to AVI and then rerendering in vegas improve matters Jeff,not sure what you're getting at! In "theory" I would like vegas to "Render" as MTS and only render effects such as dissolves,fades etc without touching the original clips at all. But at the moment it is rendering everything. What settings do you use and are your SD DVD's taken with HD camera better than your SD DVD's taken with say a sd dv camera. Regards Richard

March 29th, 2011, 07:56 AM	#6
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 This is a huge topic that has probably more threads devoted to it than any other, and many of those that are knoweldgeable about it are likely worn out discussing it. I know I am, and I'm still learning it. I only know that after using HD link to encode my video to avi prior to editing the results were outstanding, and that is a method used by many people. DVDA is simply doing a better job than you are of resizing, etc. You either need to learn how to resize your video using Vegas, which I can't help you with, or buy tmpgenc or cineform and use a different workflow. I face the same issues as you, and have yet to select the software program I will use. My busy season is coming up and I must make a choice. The scenario of people like you and me buying cameras, and then learning the painful truth of how difficult it can be to deal with the footage in post is happening daily. What makes it trickier, is some avchd footage renders out fine for SD in Vegas, and some doesn't. I recently edited a wedding shot with a HMC-150 and tried to render it out to mpeg 2 and it worked perfectly, I was stunned with the results. I've tried it with footage shot with my GH2, and it looked terrible. Part of it has to do with the settings used while shooting. 720p, I think might work better than 1080i. I don't know. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 29th, 2011, 10:11 AM	#7
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi Jeff, I'm sure people on this forum a sick and tired of the same questions regarding AVCHD to SD DVD, unfortunately I have found HD video to be not an exact science (I'm sure it is). Seems to be a lot of trial and error particularly if you don't know what you are doing. (like me at this stage). However, in the last few hours I have had some success and have found that if I set vegas properties to match the clips on the timeline but change the Deinterlace Method to Blend Fields, set the Render As to Sony AVC using the AVCHD 1920X1080-50i not customised apart from checking the sound is selected, producing an m2ts file. And letting Architect do the resizing. It seems to have produced a very very smooth detailed dvd. Just tried a few seconds of video and am now trying a longer run with a couple of dissolves and fades. Does all this make sense, or am I way off target! HD Link is it hardware or software. Regards Richard

March 29th, 2011, 10:29 AM	#9
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 No Adam, I'm not referring to Black magic, but to a cineform product that is part of NeoHD. Richard, your project properties should match your footage, I think, but you can make the adjustments you mentioned in your render template (blending fields, etc.) Ideally you don't want DVDA to recompress at all, not a good thing. HD link that I'm referring to is software and part of the NeoHd software suite sold by Cineform. You can download a trial, which I did, and it works like a charm. Small learning curve with the settings, but not bad. It costs $400US. Very pricey for one little program, but there is none better for this job. There is also tmpgenc, which is a consumer program that I have downloaded, but not tried. Some around here are using it successfully. I don't like it's interface, but I'm weird. It costs $100. Go to the Cineform website, download the trial of NeoHd. You take your original footage, and render it to avi using hd link. Then you edit the avi version and render to mpeg 2. DVDA architect will then produce a close to perfect video for you. There are ways to do this within Vegas, I have been told, but I have not learned how. The person who says it can be done did not share the specifics. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 29th, 2011, 10:55 AM	#11
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Adam, there are bunches of products named HD Link, I still don't understand why the freaking name is so popular. Very confusing. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 29th, 2011, 11:19 AM	#12
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Richard, in the end if you stumble across a method for you that works you really don't have to do anything else. You might try Cineform trial and then use that workflow once just to see if your results are any better than what you are currently getting. Trial is good for 14 days. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 29th, 2011, 12:13 PM	#13
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Richard, I have been misinformed, and in turn I have misinformed you and many other people. Apparently Cineform "Neoscene" does everything you and I need, and it costs $100, not $400. Neoscene and HDlink are the same thing, apparently, but HDlink has more input options, which doesn't affect me. Go here to download read more: Cineform Neoscene __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 29th, 2011, 03:47 PM	#14
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi to all and thanks for your input. Jeff, my method didn't work on the longer video, the video was fine but the sound shrunk to about two thirds the length of the clip. But I think I know where I'm going now. I know what's causing the motion blur, not sure what I'm going to do about it yet, but working on it. Thanks for the info regarding Neoscene, I will look into that, I also have software called Mainconcept Reference, which I think does a similar job, but haven't got my head round it yet. Any more info about any of this would be appreciated, especially working settings. Regards Richard

March 30th, 2011, 06:30 AM	#15
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi all, Still no takers, for my problem. To recap I have an MTS file (1080 50i PAL) file on my time line, all I want to do is to render to a suitable format for Architect to write a SD DVD. I've tried using mainconcept mpeg2 and although it works, the quality is rubbish, anything in the video that moves is a double image, so am sure it's to do with interlacing. What I would like is some tried and tested settings. Vegas 10 should be able to this without resorting to more expensive software, and I'm sure it can. If I import the same mts clip straight from the camera into architect, it works perfectly. Although Architect isn't happy using this file format. Regards Richard