avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10

Jeff Harper · March 30th, 2011, 08:14 AM

Richard, many of the most knowledgable people in this forum gave up a long time ago and are using Neoscene. I'm talking about old hands that have been using Vegas since it was introduced many years ago.

Someone may chime in with a magic forumula, but so far I've never seen it.

Some formats simply don't resize in Vegas well, and yours seems to be one. Vegas is not optimized for HD to SD workflow, and it is just the unfortunate reality.

Is it fair? No. Vegas should easily handle this.

Don't forget the trial of Neoscene is free and you'll have 14 days of full functionality to use it if you choose, or try the other program you have and see if it works.

When you resize using a specially designed program, all guess work is taken out of it and you can know you are getting the best quality you can.

Richard Green · March 30th, 2011, 09:13 AM

Hi Jeff,
I now have a trial version NeoScene installed and ready to go!
What's the workflow?

Richard

Jeff Harper · March 30th, 2011, 09:30 AM

My method was to first batch re-encode the original footage.

Then, you edit the new footage, and render out to the template as shown in the attached pic. BTW, you were using the correct setting as shown in the photo, right?

Choosing the settings in Neoscene is the tricky part, it's not hard, but you will need to feel your way around as I did.

Keep in mind you are learning a new piece of software, but once you have it down it will be click click click, and you'll be set. But you will have to learn the nuances, such as where to tell Neoscene to put the new footage, etc. I used HD link, so your interface will be slightly different I think. HDlink and Neoscene are basically the same, but slightly different, but I didn't know that until yesterday.

You might get impatient initially, as I did, just stick with it. I haven't used it for weeks, and have had no need for it up to this point, so I cannot be of much specific help right now. I will be using it tons in a few weeks when my busy season starts thought.

Jeff Harper · March 30th, 2011, 09:36 AM

When you have questions about using it, go here: CineForm Software Showcase Forum at DVinfo.net

Announce you are new to Neoscene in a new thread and ask for help. You need to play around with it first to get familiar so you understand the interface enough to know what is meant when someone helps you.

Report back and let us know how it goes. It is a great piece of software.

Oh, there are different workflows, but the one you choose depends on your goals. For example there is a way of doing things to allow you to produce both DVD and Bluray, but that is a different workflow. If you are definitely going to ONLY do SD DVD, then my worflow is perfect. But if you want the option to do either, than the order of events is different.

Richard Green · March 30th, 2011, 09:41 AM

Hi Jeff,
Not impressed yet :-)
I've run the program and I get a convert/capture window called hdlink.
I've just converted one clip, took forever and am left with a file 700mb which
Vegas won't open, codec error.

What is it supposed to convert to.

Regards
Richard

Jeff Harper · March 30th, 2011, 10:12 AM

You will be be encoding to avi. Uncheck the overwrite files so as not to lose your footage.

Click on prefs to changes settings, play with it. It is not instantaneous. You must not expect high-end encoding to be super quick. If you want quick use DVDA to encode as you were doing.

CineForm Software Showcase Forum at DVinfo.net

Richard Green · March 30th, 2011, 10:23 AM

Hi Jeff,
Just done another convert with another different setup.
It created another 700mb file. If I play it in windows media player, it plays in slow motion and the verticals are torn. Interlace problems. Vegas won't even open it!
I'm quickly losing the will to live.

Richard

Jeff Harper · March 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM

Oh, that's the other thing, Cineform files won't play back in WMP. I know it's weird. Also, there is something you must do in Vegas when you bring your new Cineform file into it. I'll get back to you. Don't freak out, it's quite simple, just hang on.

Jeff Harper · March 30th, 2011, 11:17 AM

The following must be done for Cineform files to look right. It is complicated why this is so, but just do it.

Bring the Cineform clip onto the Vegas timeline.
2. Open Project properties and match your project properties to the clip and close.

3. Click on Project Media tab and right-click on the clip. Select properties and click. Go to Pixel Aspect prooperties and select the correct setting. For me it is 1.2121 for widescreen DVD, but for you it will be different.

4. Important! go upward to the save icon to the right of Stream as shown in the attached pic. click save. You're done. You will not have to do this again for Cineform files.

edit your files and render to the correct setting for DVD.

Phil Lee · March 31st, 2011, 12:26 AM

Hi

Rendering out via Vegas should work fine although the quality isn't always great no matter how you go about HD to SD. A lot of the issues are due to square pixels moving to SD which isn't. As 1080i footage has to first be de-interlaced which is an art in itself, it's then resized (another art, so many ways you can resize an image), then it's re-interlaced and then stretched for SD widescreen playback. The main issue is the interlaced frames then don't interlace very well. It's also very dependant on what is in the footage, so you think you find something that works, do another project and it looks awful.

I would suggest when rendering out make sure the Project settings tab is set to Best. Also sometimes because of the rougher interlacing playing back on a computer can see it getting confused with how it should de-interlace the footage to display it (giving double images for example), so always check for playback on a TV which should do a better job.

Another option is 25p on the DVD, although motion will not be as smooth.

Hope that helps a little.

Regards

Phil

Phil Lee · March 31st, 2011, 12:30 AM

Hi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper

The following must be done for Cineform files to look right. It is complicated why this is so, but just do it.

Bring the Cineform clip onto the Vegas timeline.
2. Open Project properties and match your project properties to the clip and close.

3. Click on Project Media tab and right-click on the clip. Select properties and click. Go to Pixel Aspect prooperties and select the correct setting. For me it is 1.2121 for widescreen DVD, but for you it will be different.

4. Important! go upward to the save icon to the right of Stream as shown in the attached pic. click save. You're done. You will not have to do this again for Cineform files.

edit your files and render to the correct setting for DVD.

In your settings you are creating progressive SD footage if I'm not mistaken? Creating progressive SD usually isn't that much of a problem with most software, it's the re-interlacing that seems to causes the most issues I find, as that is when the original de-interlacing and resizing, if not done well or suited to the type of footage, will show the flaws as those interlaced frames just don't interlace correctly.

Regards

Phil

Gerald Webb · March 31st, 2011, 03:32 AM

Uhmm, why would you re-interlace if you have de-interlaced?

Jeff Harper · March 31st, 2011, 05:24 AM

I believe the OP never brought up the issue of interlacing. He is simply trying to produce a DVD from AVCHD video.

Gerald Webb · March 31st, 2011, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Lee

Hi

In your settings you are creating progressive SD footage if I'm not mistaken? Creating progressive SD usually isn't that much of a problem with most software, it's the re-interlacing that seems to causes the most issues I find, as that is when the original de-interlacing and resizing, if not done well or suited to the type of footage, will show the flaws as those interlaced frames just don't interlace correctly.

Regards

Phil

I was just referring to this Jeff.
Am I missing something? why would you not carry through progressive if you have already de-interlaced?

Jeff Harper · March 31st, 2011, 06:03 AM

I don't know why Phil broght it up, Gerald. The original poster was assisted through the steps to use Cineform, but then he disappeared, so to speak. He is either busy doing other things, or is taking a break from the whole thing. Don't know.

Phil kindly took the time to chime in, but Richard was at a point where is was last seen trying to convert his footage with Cineform, which would serve him well if he were to stick with it.

Maybe the OP made a comment earlier that I forgot about regarding interlacing, and that was what Phil was referring to. But of course you are exactly right as you say.

March 30th, 2011, 08:14 AM	#16
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Richard, many of the most knowledgable people in this forum gave up a long time ago and are using Neoscene. I'm talking about old hands that have been using Vegas since it was introduced many years ago. Someone may chime in with a magic forumula, but so far I've never seen it. Some formats simply don't resize in Vegas well, and yours seems to be one. Vegas is not optimized for HD to SD workflow, and it is just the unfortunate reality. Is it fair? No. Vegas should easily handle this. Don't forget the trial of Neoscene is free and you'll have 14 days of full functionality to use it if you choose, or try the other program you have and see if it works. When you resize using a specially designed program, all guess work is taken out of it and you can know you are getting the best quality you can. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 30th, 2011, 09:13 AM	#17
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi Jeff, I now have a trial version NeoScene installed and ready to go! What's the workflow? Richard

March 30th, 2011, 09:30 AM	#18
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 My method was to first batch re-encode the original footage. Then, you edit the new footage, and render out to the template as shown in the attached pic. BTW, you were using the correct setting as shown in the photo, right? Choosing the settings in Neoscene is the tricky part, it's not hard, but you will need to feel your way around as I did. Keep in mind you are learning a new piece of software, but once you have it down it will be click click click, and you'll be set. But you will have to learn the nuances, such as where to tell Neoscene to put the new footage, etc. I used HD link, so your interface will be slightly different I think. HDlink and Neoscene are basically the same, but slightly different, but I didn't know that until yesterday. You might get impatient initially, as I did, just stick with it. I haven't used it for weeks, and have had no need for it up to this point, so I cannot be of much specific help right now. I will be using it tons in a few weeks when my busy season starts thought. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 30th, 2011, 09:36 AM	#19
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 When you have questions about using it, go here: CineForm Software Showcase Forum at DVinfo.net Announce you are new to Neoscene in a new thread and ask for help. You need to play around with it first to get familiar so you understand the interface enough to know what is meant when someone helps you. Report back and let us know how it goes. It is a great piece of software. Oh, there are different workflows, but the one you choose depends on your goals. For example there is a way of doing things to allow you to produce both DVD and Bluray, but that is a different workflow. If you are definitely going to ONLY do SD DVD, then my worflow is perfect. But if you want the option to do either, than the order of events is different. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 30th, 2011, 09:41 AM	#20
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi Jeff, Not impressed yet :-) I've run the program and I get a convert/capture window called hdlink. I've just converted one clip, took forever and am left with a file 700mb which Vegas won't open, codec error. What is it supposed to convert to. Regards Richard Attached Thumbnails

March 30th, 2011, 10:12 AM	#21
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 You will be be encoding to avi. Uncheck the overwrite files so as not to lose your footage. Click on prefs to changes settings, play with it. It is not instantaneous. You must not expect high-end encoding to be super quick. If you want quick use DVDA to encode as you were doing. CineForm Software Showcase Forum at DVinfo.net __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 30th, 2011, 10:23 AM	#22
Richard Green Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 60	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi Jeff, Just done another convert with another different setup. It created another 700mb file. If I play it in windows media player, it plays in slow motion and the verticals are torn. Interlace problems. Vegas won't even open it! I'm quickly losing the will to live. Richard

March 30th, 2011, 10:38 AM	#23
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Oh, that's the other thing, Cineform files won't play back in WMP. I know it's weird. Also, there is something you must do in Vegas when you bring your new Cineform file into it. I'll get back to you. Don't freak out, it's quite simple, just hang on. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 30th, 2011, 11:17 AM	#24
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 The following must be done for Cineform files to look right. It is complicated why this is so, but just do it. Bring the Cineform clip onto the Vegas timeline. 2. Open Project properties and match your project properties to the clip and close. 3. Click on Project Media tab and right-click on the clip. Select properties and click. Go to Pixel Aspect prooperties and select the correct setting. For me it is 1.2121 for widescreen DVD, but for you it will be different. 4. Important! go upward to the save icon to the right of Stream as shown in the attached pic. click save. You're done. You will not have to do this again for Cineform files. edit your files and render to the correct setting for DVD. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 31st, 2011, 12:26 AM	#25
Phil Lee Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: London Posts: 302	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Hi Rendering out via Vegas should work fine although the quality isn't always great no matter how you go about HD to SD. A lot of the issues are due to square pixels moving to SD which isn't. As 1080i footage has to first be de-interlaced which is an art in itself, it's then resized (another art, so many ways you can resize an image), then it's re-interlaced and then stretched for SD widescreen playback. The main issue is the interlaced frames then don't interlace very well. It's also very dependant on what is in the footage, so you think you find something that works, do another project and it looks awful. I would suggest when rendering out make sure the Project settings tab is set to Best. Also sometimes because of the rougher interlacing playing back on a computer can see it getting confused with how it should de-interlace the footage to display it (giving double images for example), so always check for playback on a TV which should do a better job. Another option is 25p on the DVD, although motion will not be as smooth. Hope that helps a little. Regards Phil

March 31st, 2011, 03:32 AM	#27
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 Uhmm, why would you re-interlace if you have de-interlaced? __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo

March 31st, 2011, 05:24 AM	#28
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 I believe the OP never brought up the issue of interlacing. He is simply trying to produce a DVD from AVCHD video. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."

March 31st, 2011, 06:03 AM	#30
Jeff Harper Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 8,425	Re: avchd (mts) to SD DVD via vegas pro 10 I don't know why Phil broght it up, Gerald. The original poster was assisted through the steps to use Cineform, but then he disappeared, so to speak. He is either busy doing other things, or is taking a break from the whole thing. Don't know. Phil kindly took the time to chime in, but Richard was at a point where is was last seen trying to convert his footage with Cineform, which would serve him well if he were to stick with it. Maybe the OP made a comment earlier that I forgot about regarding interlacing, and that was what Phil was referring to. But of course you are exactly right as you say. __________________ "The horror of what I saw on the timeline cannot be described."