Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project at DVinfo.net

Marcus Martell · March 28th, 2011, 02:44 PM

Hi,
question: if i wanna insert a couple of NTSC VHSimages from 1970s on my doc HDV108050i shot with FX1 Pal what's the best thing to do?
Render the vhs clips in HDV 1080 50i §(so i'll match the output project)?
Or should i open a new projects matching the NTSC clips and rendering output in ntsc 1080 60p then add those parts that interest me on my 1080 50 i timeline?

gracias

Mike Kujbida · March 28th, 2011, 03:40 PM

Marcus, you can try to up-sample your VHS clips but I think you're going to be disappointed with the result.
VHS is far less resolution than your current project.
What I would do is drop it on your timeline and leave it at it's originate size.
Put a blurred background of some kind behind it to try and hide the fact that it's no where close to HD quality.
Don't take my word for it though.
Try a short test with your second option and see what you think.

Marcus Martell · March 28th, 2011, 04:04 PM

Mike, as usual very useful suggestions but it would be cool to find a plugin for vegas to upscale the VHS footage to HDV...I remeber AE has Instant HD, who knows if somedy will find something good for my job!

Thx

Leslie Wand · March 28th, 2011, 05:02 PM

dream on ;-)

would love to see what you come up with! even tbc'd vhs the best i could do was as mike suggested. don't see what's the problem with it - nearly all broadcasts of 4:3 in 16:9 use a similar method (my preferred is using same shot blurred full screen as bkg.)

Mike Kujbida · March 28th, 2011, 05:05 PM

my preferred is using same shot blurred full screen as bkg.

Nice to see that great minds think alike !!
Save your comeback for the sheep :)

Marcus Martell · March 29th, 2011, 03:32 AM

Leslie could you post a frame of your blurried bkgd ?
gracias

Mike Kujbida · March 29th, 2011, 03:46 AM

Marcus, place your VHS video on two tracks.
On track 1, leave it at its original small size.
On track 2, open Pan/Crop, right-click and select Match Output Aspect (to make the video fill the frame) and then apply a Gaussian blur to the event.
Adjust the blur as desired so that it doesn't detract from the original video.

Marcus Martell · March 29th, 2011, 04:13 AM

Mike i get what you mean, but the idea of stock footage with the background blurried is acceptable for you?
Mike what are foor you acceptable amount of blur to not detract from original video?
Thx

Mike Kujbida · March 29th, 2011, 04:28 AM

Marcus, I'm talking about using the identical clip as the background/blurred clip.
I do this a lot, especially with stills that were shot in portrait mode.
There's no hard and fast rule as to how much blur to use.
Try various amounts (start with the medium setting) and see what works best with the source video.

Marcus Martell · March 29th, 2011, 04:33 AM

Mike sorry if i sounded "slow", i perfectly got what you explained, i was just not sure that a similar effect could be used on historical documentaries ( i'm trying to find a similar effect on history channel doc)
I ve reached what you suggested me! Just guessing if it's appropriate for the stock footage on a doc!
Thx a lot

Mike Kujbida · March 29th, 2011, 04:55 AM

No problem Marcus.
I have to confess that I watch very little TV these days so I have no idea whether history docs use this kind of effect or not.

Leslie Wand · March 29th, 2011, 05:47 AM

depending on their budget (;-)) doco's use anything from a simple 4:3 in 16:9 with NO background, through to split screen with two 4:3 frames in them.

it's all a matter of what suits the content, and the general feel / treatment of the subject.

you will be the best judge of that, from assessing the right amount of blur through to split screen, whatever.

just don't try to disguise that it's vhs footage, a IT IS vhs footage, and if you try to make it look something else people will think it's just poorly shot 'modern' material....

Marcus Martell · March 30th, 2011, 01:56 PM

Thank you guys, i ve just deinterlaced the footage to fit in a interlaced project but......
I wish Vegas could use some kind of interpolator like INSTANT HD from Red giant that could maximize the quality of Sd. You don't know anything out there?

Mike Kujbida · March 30th, 2011, 04:08 PM

i ve just deinterlaced the footage to fit in a interlaced project

I have to ask you why you did that.
You do realize that you just threw out 1/2 your resolution by doing that and VHS wasn't that good to start with.

Marcus Martell · March 30th, 2011, 04:34 PM

Cause there were those ugly artifacts with the horizontal lines on the VHS clips on my hdv 108050i project.
Mike what would you do to get rid of those bands to conform the footage to HD?
Thx

March 28th, 2011, 02:44 PM	#1
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Hi, question: if i wanna insert a couple of NTSC VHSimages from 1970s on my doc HDV108050i shot with FX1 Pal what's the best thing to do? Render the vhs clips in HDV 1080 50i §(so i'll match the output project)? Or should i open a new projects matching the NTSC clips and rendering output in ntsc 1080 60p then add those parts that interest me on my 1080 50 i timeline? gracias

March 28th, 2011, 03:40 PM	#2
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Marcus, you can try to up-sample your VHS clips but I think you're going to be disappointed with the result. VHS is far less resolution than your current project. What I would do is drop it on your timeline and leave it at it's originate size. Put a blurred background of some kind behind it to try and hide the fact that it's no where close to HD quality. Don't take my word for it though. Try a short test with your second option and see what you think.

March 28th, 2011, 04:04 PM	#3
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Mike, as usual very useful suggestions but it would be cool to find a plugin for vegas to upscale the VHS footage to HDV...I remeber AE has Instant HD, who knows if somedy will find something good for my job! Thx

March 28th, 2011, 05:02 PM	#4
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project dream on ;-) would love to see what you come up with! even tbc'd vhs the best i could do was as mike suggested. don't see what's the problem with it - nearly all broadcasts of 4:3 in 16:9 use a similar method (my preferred is using same shot blurred full screen as bkg.) __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

March 28th, 2011, 05:05 PM	#5
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project my preferred is using same shot blurred full screen as bkg. Nice to see that great minds think alike !! Save your comeback for the sheep :)

March 29th, 2011, 03:32 AM	#6
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Leslie could you post a frame of your blurried bkgd ? gracias

March 29th, 2011, 03:46 AM	#7
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Marcus, place your VHS video on two tracks. On track 1, leave it at its original small size. On track 2, open Pan/Crop, right-click and select Match Output Aspect (to make the video fill the frame) and then apply a Gaussian blur to the event. Adjust the blur as desired so that it doesn't detract from the original video.

March 29th, 2011, 04:13 AM	#8
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Mike i get what you mean, but the idea of stock footage with the background blurried is acceptable for you? Mike what are foor you acceptable amount of blur to not detract from original video? Thx

March 29th, 2011, 04:28 AM	#9
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Marcus, I'm talking about using the identical clip as the background/blurred clip. I do this a lot, especially with stills that were shot in portrait mode. There's no hard and fast rule as to how much blur to use. Try various amounts (start with the medium setting) and see what works best with the source video.

March 29th, 2011, 04:33 AM	#10
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Mike sorry if i sounded "slow", i perfectly got what you explained, i was just not sure that a similar effect could be used on historical documentaries ( i'm trying to find a similar effect on history channel doc) I ve reached what you suggested me! Just guessing if it's appropriate for the stock footage on a doc! Thx a lot

March 29th, 2011, 04:55 AM	#11
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project No problem Marcus. I have to confess that I watch very little TV these days so I have no idea whether history docs use this kind of effect or not.

March 29th, 2011, 05:47 AM	#12
Leslie Wand Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: upper hunter, australia Posts: 1,410	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project depending on their budget (;-)) doco's use anything from a simple 4:3 in 16:9 with NO background, through to split screen with two 4:3 frames in them. it's all a matter of what suits the content, and the general feel / treatment of the subject. you will be the best judge of that, from assessing the right amount of blur through to split screen, whatever. just don't try to disguise that it's vhs footage, a IT IS vhs footage, and if you try to make it look something else people will think it's just poorly shot 'modern' material.... __________________ www.lesliewand.com.au

March 30th, 2011, 01:56 PM	#13
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Thank you guys, i ve just deinterlaced the footage to fit in a interlaced project but...... I wish Vegas could use some kind of interpolator like INSTANT HD from Red giant that could maximize the quality of Sd. You don't know anything out there?

March 30th, 2011, 04:08 PM	#14
Mike Kujbida Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Windsor, ON Canada Posts: 2,770	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project i ve just deinterlaced the footage to fit in a interlaced project I have to ask you why you did that. You do realize that you just threw out 1/2 your resolution by doing that and VHS wasn't that good to start with.

March 30th, 2011, 04:34 PM	#15
Marcus Martell Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: spain Posts: 1,202	Re: Ntsc insert on a PAL hdv 1059i project Cause there were those ugly artifacts with the horizontal lines on the VHS clips on my hdv 108050i project. Mike what would you do to get rid of those bands to conform the footage to HD? Thx